Look at this still of from HVX200A and tell me if this noise is normal
- Thread starter Bob D
- Start date
robertwerden
Well-known member
Check your gain switch, make sure it is all the way to the top. (IE no gain)
Also factory F6 is a gamma setting if I recall, this may be to dark.
Also check your f-stop, make sure it is open.
You will always get noise when shooting indoors with regular room lights. The HVX eats light, so feed it well
Also factory F6 is a gamma setting if I recall, this may be to dark.
Also check your f-stop, make sure it is open.
You will always get noise when shooting indoors with regular room lights. The HVX eats light, so feed it well
robertwerden
Well-known member
The most reasonable solution is to add light. Room light is just not good enough for 1/3" sensors.
grahamdunn
Active member
I had the same worries with my HVX. Robert is right; hit it with a ton of light and you will see the grain disappear. I light to just under the 90% zebras and although it looks pretty bright, I can always darken the footage in post and avoid that grain if I want a darker look.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
F6, "Cine-Like D" is the noisiest setting possible in low light conditions. I've found F3, "Spark" to be the best factory preset for those cases. You might want to try it as a starting point and see what you think.
In any case, the 200a is, as far as I know, one of the least noisy cameras in its class. It certainly is far less noisy than the 200 was.
In any case, the 200a is, as far as I know, one of the least noisy cameras in its class. It certainly is far less noisy than the 200 was.
Jiggityjiggs
Member
shooting on open isn't really taking advantage of the camera's sweet spot either... I would suspect the closer to F 5.6 you get, the less grain you'll have. Shooting fully open means the camera is struggling for light to begin with..
cordvision
Well-known member
That doesn't have to do anything with the grain. Shooting the same scene at 5.6 would give you an even more underexposed image with more grain. Shooting at 5.6 might give you a little bit sharper image because the lens performance is better at this f stop than fully open but it doesn't give you less grain....
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
You've left off so much information it's hard to even say what's normal...
Since I don't have an HVX maybe F6 means something very specific, but my questions are these:
1. Were you shooting 480, 720, or 1080 resolution?
2. Were you shooting 24, 30, or 60 fps?
3. Were you shooting interlaced or progressive?
4. What was your shutter speed or was the shutter off?
5. Where was your Neutral Density switch set?
6. How much light was actually there? Meaning what did your spot meter say? If this was lit by a single candle, then I'd say this is remarkable footage. If you had a 2k HMI 10ft from the monitor, then I'd say something was broken.
Is this your first video camera? Regardless of the ads you see in the magazine, ALL cameras like light. Some want a lot more than others. But these claims that you can get video nearly in the dark from a $500 camera are just as bogus as they sound. And the HVX does a good job in reasonable light, but like most video cameras, give it more light, and you'll see things start to improve quickly.
Since I don't have an HVX maybe F6 means something very specific, but my questions are these:
1. Were you shooting 480, 720, or 1080 resolution?
2. Were you shooting 24, 30, or 60 fps?
3. Were you shooting interlaced or progressive?
4. What was your shutter speed or was the shutter off?
5. Where was your Neutral Density switch set?
6. How much light was actually there? Meaning what did your spot meter say? If this was lit by a single candle, then I'd say this is remarkable footage. If you had a 2k HMI 10ft from the monitor, then I'd say something was broken.
Is this your first video camera? Regardless of the ads you see in the magazine, ALL cameras like light. Some want a lot more than others. But these claims that you can get video nearly in the dark from a $500 camera are just as bogus as they sound. And the HVX does a good job in reasonable light, but like most video cameras, give it more light, and you'll see things start to improve quickly.
Mickey Munday
Well-known member
the thing is this isn't a $500 camera so thats apples and oranges - and the model he has is supposed to be far better at low light performance.
there's been screengrabs of better images from the same cam with even less light that shown above.
there's been screengrabs of better images from the same cam with even less light that shown above.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
I don't care if he's shooting with an F23. If there's not enough light, its going to be grainy. There's a reason they shoot day for night in Hollywood even with half-million dollar cameras.
Unless you are privy to some information that we don't have, we don't have even a remote clue about how much light was on that scene. The shadow from the monitor on the wall, indicates there was SOME light, and the quality of the light was soft. But it could have been 2 foot candles or 200. We just don't know.
Making a proper exposure requires knowledge of a few things:
1. Light quantity
2. Shutter speed
3. Aperture
4. Recording medium.
We have been given 2 of the 4.
-P
Unless you are privy to some information that we don't have, we don't have even a remote clue about how much light was on that scene. The shadow from the monitor on the wall, indicates there was SOME light, and the quality of the light was soft. But it could have been 2 foot candles or 200. We just don't know.
Making a proper exposure requires knowledge of a few things:
1. Light quantity
2. Shutter speed
3. Aperture
4. Recording medium.
We have been given 2 of the 4.
-P
This is in F6, factory setting, wide open in a dark corner of my office. I just got the 200A and it seems to be very noisy. What do you guys think.
If that's as bad as it will get then I'd be very happy... could you please get the same lighting and add one small light of any kind, a simple 100W bulb about 4-5 feet away from this corner and post that up please... same settings please. And if you could, I would LOVE to see the same corner (no additional light) shot on an 200.
Nils_Osmar
New member
I have an HVX200a and it generally does well in low light, even very low light, but there can be some graininess under some condidions. I would agree with those who say that this camcorder, like others, loves light. I have found tha, the HVX200a is a finely tuned machine that delivers different results under different conditions. Getting the results you are looking for may depend on how you set the gamma, how you have the iris adjusted and other factors.
robertwerden
Well-known member
Ive had my HVX for over a year and still don't have a perfect understanding of these things. It really takes a good knowledge of all of those elements to compose a good image.
I think to often people associate video cameras with digital cameras. Thinking that since a digital camera of any quality can adjust for low light that a video camera can do the same.
I have sat and experimented for hours in dark room light attempting to find a sweet spot only to end up having to add light and either darken it in post or stop it down on the lens. I know there have been clips shown of fantastic night shots done on the HVX and many claim they had no additional light added other than a lone candle in the room. To me I find this to be either an amazing show of photographic knowledge or a downright lie to make them seem as if they can work miracles.
I think the main reason there is so much talk about how to pull a rabbit out of a hat on getting a noise free image in a dark room is to avoid the task of learning and setting up proper lighting. I tried over and over to trick the camera into not adding noise to a dark scene, only to be let down over and over again.
I know that I can get close, but when you are anal about these things close is not good enough.
I think to often people associate video cameras with digital cameras. Thinking that since a digital camera of any quality can adjust for low light that a video camera can do the same.
I have sat and experimented for hours in dark room light attempting to find a sweet spot only to end up having to add light and either darken it in post or stop it down on the lens. I know there have been clips shown of fantastic night shots done on the HVX and many claim they had no additional light added other than a lone candle in the room. To me I find this to be either an amazing show of photographic knowledge or a downright lie to make them seem as if they can work miracles.
I think the main reason there is so much talk about how to pull a rabbit out of a hat on getting a noise free image in a dark room is to avoid the task of learning and setting up proper lighting. I tried over and over to trick the camera into not adding noise to a dark scene, only to be let down over and over again.
I know that I can get close, but when you are anal about these things close is not good enough.
you have a point there but bottom line you have to accept that you have a sub
10k HD cam that can do wonderful things and yeah its gonna make some noise no matter what, go shoot red, even red has noise, not as much as the hvx but it does, some people want the hvx to perform like a genesis and its just not gonna happen
10k HD cam that can do wonderful things and yeah its gonna make some noise no matter what, go shoot red, even red has noise, not as much as the hvx but it does, some people want the hvx to perform like a genesis and its just not gonna happen
Ted Spencer
Veteran
35mm film has noise (grain) too. It's all over the place in lots of big-budget features.
Looking at static frame-grabs of intentionally underlit areas will not make for many happy campers.
You need to use a tool according to its capability. IMHO the 200a offers very good noise performance for its price. Will there be noise if you push it too far? Of course.
Likewise for 35mm film, just at a higher (or perhaps I should say lower) threshold.
Looking at static frame-grabs of intentionally underlit areas will not make for many happy campers.
You need to use a tool according to its capability. IMHO the 200a offers very good noise performance for its price. Will there be noise if you push it too far? Of course.
Likewise for 35mm film, just at a higher (or perhaps I should say lower) threshold.
yep agreed, the magic of 35mm film is that that noise is converted into beautiful
looking grain, and regarding the hvx
the hvx is meant to be used with light, throw some lights on it, light it up like it was meant to and see what happens.... this camera sings
just my thoughts poured out on html
looking grain, and regarding the hvx
the hvx is meant to be used with light, throw some lights on it, light it up like it was meant to and see what happens.... this camera sings
just my thoughts poured out on html
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
LOL!
I too spent a long time with my DVX trying to tweak things to get better low light footage. I was AWFUL when I first started. Then as I learned about shutting off the shutter, and about mild gain, and how to manipulate in post, etc, things started getting more clear to me. But then, when I started reading ASC, everything changed.
When I saw the "night time" production photos of things like night scenes in Cloverfield, I am Legend, Hairspray, etc., with a dozen 18k or 24k HMIs, and silked 2ks or 5ks for closeups, etc., I realized how crazy this all was. If people shooting feature films on F23s, Vipers, REDs, Genesis, and good old Vision2 are pushing 200-1000 foot candles on set, why are we even discussing trying to get our $5k 1/3" CCD camcorders to deliver noise free images with 10 foot candles?
Here is the Sony link to the CineAlta F23: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-cinealta/product-F23/
Retail is $150k (no lens).
Specs say it gives T10 at 2000 lux (185FC)
F900 ($69.9k):
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-cinealta/product-HDWF900R/
T10 at 2000 Lux
The Sony PMW-EX1 ($7.7k)
Gives F10 at 2000 lux in 60i so so about F5.6 in 24p.
What does this mean? The EX1, which is known to be more sensitive in low light than the HVX, needs about 200FC of light to put it in it's sweet spot. I metered my office on Monday. With my desklight on and the blinds opened, my seating position metered at 1.4FC. With my RIFA 88 at 5ft away, and my CFL head in it, I got up to about 25 FC. I'd need about 1200w of light at 10ft in that office to put my EX1 in it's sweet spot.
NONE of our cameras is going to give us truly clean footage in the kind of low light this photo shows. Just not going to happen. Not with a $5k camera, not with a $200k camera.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Well, to my eye, the kind of grain I'm talking about looks a lot like camcorder noise much of the time, and isn't really all that beautiful. I saw "Hancock" last weekend and for some reason it occurred to me to look for noise/grain (probably because I'd just been showing off some very clean low-light HVX200a footage to a friend).
Well...there sure was plenty of it, in many different scenes. I don't know whether it was shot on film or not (I'd guess it was) but it certainly put the question in perspective for me.
I'm not saying "Hancock" looked bad, btw...
Last edited: