On the fence, EX1 owners look at this!!!

J

Jon Neely

Well-known member
ok, im tiered of debating, please users of dvxuser that own EX1's and have a little extra time to make a test video, I was going to do it, but I cant get a tester from bandpro (they are sending me one for free) till late july! so in the meantime, can people with an ex1's do theses tests;


~X+Y pans and variable speeds and frame rates, and showing the "workarounds" for the rolling shutter,

~24p 1/48th and show some human movement that is not slown down to see if it has a "film" 24p, most people know what I am talking about then I say film 24p, there is filmic 24p look and there is video 24p, I would like to see some examples, and it would be good to see some med. and wide shots, plus if the person know how to light, that would be great.

~Running with a the cam, or maybe with a steadicam, keeping a running/moving object in frame, but having background pass by, I hope people know what I mean. I would like to see skew examples and how people are trying to counter it.

other than that, thats all I can think about... if anyone else has Ideas or would like to comment on this, that would be good, this would be very helpful for the people like me that are torn between the ex1 and the HPX170, soo that would be awesome, and please to CC your footage to cherry it up, leave it raw and real time. Thanks guys and gals that can help us out, if not I'll do this in july, but I would like to get this over with before.



Jon
 
ugh, dvxuser isn't youtube where you can just type in what you want to see and BOOM there it is, nor do i think people going to STOP what they're doing and run these tests for you.

this camera has almost been out for a year now ... spend a few bucks, rent it for a day and do these tests yourself. that's probably the most honest way of seeing the results.

also - your thread title is a little deceptive. :/
 
Seems in the States it's the same situation as here in Germany.
People who don't own the EX1 mostly are the only ones who complain about rolling shutter, shuttering movements, artefacts (!), "only 4:2:2" and so on and so on. People who actually own the EX1 love that cam, the wonderful images, the "mechanical" lens, know about the issues like said above but it has not much to do with their actual work and filming. I own the EX1 and I don't see why I should spent much time to do some "test" because now I know that camera is great and gives me results I really dreamed about one year ago!!! Yes, there are half-lighted frames in some shots with flashes but only visible if I watch the footage frame by frame. And even it would be visible: Who cares? And since I got my Apple 30" display I love that camera even more... Here in Germany there are still people who think the HVX200 and the EX1 are almost equal in picture quality, it's just the "right setting" - come on, I shot an event with both cams in lowlight. Watching the stuff on my 30 display I just hate to intercut the interpolated semi-HD pic of the HVX with the chystal-clear-full-1920x1080 EX1 stuff and whenever possible I take the EX1 footage.
 
rainermann said:
... camera is great and gives me results I really dreamed about one year ago!!!
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I fully agree to this statement! A bit sick and tired of all these arguing about disadvantages. Im am aware of these, but they do not affect my work with this brilliant cam.

Cheers,

Eva
 
Jon Neely said:
ok, im tiered of debating, please users of dvxuser that own EX1's and have a little extra time to make a test video, I was going to do it, but I cant get a tester from bandpro (they are sending me one for free) till late july! so in the meantime, can people with an ex1's do theses tests;


~X+Y pans and variable speeds and frame rates, and showing the "workarounds" for the rolling shutter,

~24p 1/48th and show some human movement that is not slown down to see if it has a "film" 24p, most people know what I am talking about then I say film 24p, there is filmic 24p look and there is video 24p, I would like to see some examples, and it would be good to see some med. and wide shots, plus if the person know how to light, that would be great.

~Running with a the cam, or maybe with a steadicam, keeping a running/moving object in frame, but having background pass by, I hope people know what I mean. I would like to see skew examples and how people are trying to counter it.

other than that, thats all I can think about... if anyone else has Ideas or would like to comment on this, that would be good, this would be very helpful for the people like me that are torn between the ex1 and the HPX170, soo that would be awesome, and please to CC your footage to cherry it up, leave it raw and real time. Thanks guys and gals that can help us out, if not I'll do this in july, but I would like to get this over with before.



Jon
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Send me $100 and I will do all of the above. hehe.
 
dandobi.com said:
... spend a few bucks, rent it for a day and do these tests yourself. that's probably the most honest way of seeing the results.
:/
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that's what I do all the time, and that's what I'd recommend you;
I wouldn't make my camera changing decision on anybody else's tests results
 
I've been lurking around this forum and the one on DVi for the last couple of weeks and just made the jump, picked up a mint used EX1 yesterday that popped up locally. Thanks to everyone that helped me make the decision.

As a past HVX200 owner I was reluctant (was going to wait for the hpx170) but the obvious quality differences I kept seeing and the fact that no one who actually uses an EX ever complained about having any real issues won me over. (a decent deal on a used one didn't hurt either)

Anyhow all I'd like to add to the above is the footage is all out there in it's glory if you take the time to look. I did, made my decision and I'm stoked!

Vortex sells a DVD with RAW EX1 files on it as well which at $35 (over priced IMHO) but it did give me a chance to ingest/edit the actual camera files and see what I was in for from that respect.
 
As a previous HVX200 owner, I have never looked back. The EX1 is leaps and bounds better than the HVX200 IMO. The EX1 murders the HVX200 in low light, strangles it in image quality and absolutely kicks it in the arse when it comes to card record times.

Sure the flash issue is a pain the the backside as I have to go through the footage and put in a flash filter to cover the half frame, but THAT is the only issue I have had with it. Really. My issues with the HVX were as long as my arm.

If you want this camera for shooting stars outside theatres at world premiers, forget it. But other than that its a totaly brilliant camera for the money and kills anything in a similar price bracket.
 
Steve Shovlar said:
As a previous HVX200 owner, I have never looked back. The EX1 is leaps and bounds better than the HVX200 IMO. The EX1 murders the HVX200 in low light, strangles it in image quality and absolutely kicks it in the arse when it comes to card record times.

Sure the flash issue is a pain the the backside as I have to go through the footage and put in a flash filter to cover the half frame, but THAT is the only issue I have had with it. Really. My issues with the HVX were as long as my arm.

If you want this camera for shooting stars outside theatres at world premiers, forget it. But other than that its a totaly brilliant camera for the money and kills anything in a similar price bracket.
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Disclaimer: This is not to perpetuate an argument, but to clear up misconception.

Is the EX-1 leaps better than the 200, yes. 200A? no.

And I HAVE done side-by-sides with both. It's no longer a murder situation. The only thing the EX-1 has, image wise, is more resolution. The 200 is garbage, the 200A is a different ballgame altogether.

In fact, the 200A is faster in 720p than the EX1 in 720p. Oops.

Just had to mention that.
 
Doesn't this just reminds you of all the XH-A1 vs. DVX vs. HVX threads a while back? I mean really these comparison threads are just beating a dead horse over and over again. Somebody will say something that cause someone else to jump in to defend their camera, and it goes full circle. We should really ban all the "versus" threads for a few months after each new camera come out so we're not subjected to these useless arguments over and over.
 
I wish I had time to do some tests and upload them... I've been doing my own tests based on what I can expect with the type of adventure footage I'll be shooting and allz I can say, as I have so many times, that I'm blown away by this camera. I also like to point out I'd probably be blown away by the HVX200a too, but I also know, for what I'm doing, the HVX200a wouldn't quite have the resolution required for some of my markets.

If in the next couple of weeks I can get some time to do so, I'll upload some clips that may fall along the lines of what you're specifically asking. I can do some pans for you at various speeds and settings, and I can run both with and without a steadicam (I'm actually waiting for the new Italian thingamajigger, I haven't heard any consistent good reviews about other handheld stabilizers for the EX1 yet).

A couple disclaimers -- I'm not after the "film" look so I'm not really savvy on the 24p stuff but I'll try (I'm actually after the high-def crisp look, the 'wow' factor for nature/adventure stuff). At this point I'm all head knowledge (limited at that too) and green with experience on video cameras (been lugging my still camera around for years though, and still will).

I think there's a general consensus that the resolution and "wow!" factor is pretty consistent as a response (a few people naturally will say otherwise), so then in my opinion it's a matter of 'camera work' and skillfully shooting to keep it that way. You have to do some fairly extreme (is that an oxymoron?) stuff to have rolling shutter an issue (excepting perhaps lots and lots of bright frame-filling flashes). I've run with the camera handheld chasing my boy and it looks amazing, no jello for me, even while doing things I normally wouldn't do (shake the camera, purposely run heavy-footed, etc.), but admittedly I didn't shake the camera like a freaky madman or wobble so fast I was concerned about shaking something internally loose from my camera.

Sometimes I find it hard to sleep at night I'm so excited about the potential of this camera! Seriously... I have scenes running through my head and I can't wait to HIT THE TRAILS!
 
We should really ban all the "versus" threads for a few months after each new camera come out so we're not subjected to these useless arguments over and over.
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When I was first deciding, I found these types of threads helpful. I would actually Google things like, "XXXX vs YYYY" to see what people think. After a while it's pretty clear which comments are honest evaluations and which are fanboy comments. It's nice to know the pros and cons and why people think the way they do.

They're also typically very popular threads going by viewcounts and number of posts, even though I agree, it gets quite redundant quickly. But I don't think banning such threads is a good idea and of course we don't even have to look at these threads. But you know most everyone still does. :)
 
Well, not "official" ban, but people should have some self-restraint when either starting a thread like that or posting in one. An amazingly large percentage of those threads get locked eventually because the signal to noise ratio went way down and then we descent into fanboyism. Everybody wants to defend "their" investment or their perceived "best" camera and even when they start out with the best intentions, the bickering soon becomes hard to take. But what annoys me the most are thread starters who refused to DO A SEARCH and just rely on the generic "Which camera is the best?" thread titles to start the argument over again.

So in the future if we already had an extensive "versus" type thread (which we've certainly had for the EX1, HVX etc.), then we should just reply to each new thread by linking to the old one instead of repeating what's already been mentioned.
 
Kholi said:
Disclaimer: This is not to perpetuate an argument, but to clear up misconception.

Is the EX-1 leaps better than the 200, yes. 200A? no.

And I HAVE done side-by-sides with both. It's no longer a murder situation. The only thing the EX-1 has, image wise, is more resolution. The 200 is garbage, the 200A is a different ballgame altogether.

In fact, the 200A is faster in 720p than the EX1 in 720p. Oops.

Just had to mention that.
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I wasn't rrying to force an argument with an HVX user, just giving my opinion of the two cameras, one I now own and the other I owned. I can't so much comment on the 200A as I have never used it. I was comparing the orginal HVX200 with the EX1. And the EX1 murders the HVX. But then it should as it's newer and a bit more expensive.
 
Huy Vu said:
Doesn't this just reminds you of all the XH-A1 vs. DVX vs. HVX threads a while back? I mean really these comparison threads are just beating a dead horse over and over again. Somebody will say something that cause someone else to jump in to defend their camera, and it goes full circle. We should really ban all the "versus" threads for a few months after each new camera come out so we're not subjected to these useless arguments over and over.
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OK HOLD ON!!! Alright, this thread was NOT meant to be a vs thread or it would have said it in the title, it was specifically meant to be a thread where people like me, that dont own the camera, and want to find out more about it with out spending cash could go a find stuff out. This Forum is meant to help others out, if this is one way of doing it then dont down play the thread. all I asked was someone that is kind in heat to do these test specifically to shut up all of the vs. threads and the people who dont own an ex1 downplaying them with the rolling shutter. If we had a good true test, there would be no room for arguments anymore, views could see what the camera does, and that could be the end of it. I know there are examples of he rolling shutter around but there are no videos showing the "fix" or the workaround I have heard about with the ex1 to counter some problems. Please dont jump all over me, I am simply looking for information, not an argument.
~for everyone else that has put in info, thank you. Kholli, your comment confuses me right when I was feeling like I was on track....lol :)




Jon
 
Steve Shovlar said:
I wasn't rrying to force an argument with an HVX user, just giving my opinion of the two cameras, one I now own and the other I owned. I can't so much comment on the 200A as I have never used it. I was comparing the orginal HVX200 with the EX1. And the EX1 murders the HVX. But then it should as it's newer and a bit more expensive.
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Didn't think you were, Steve. Just had to make sure that the 200A got it's deserved comparison. It's not so clear cut anymore, trust me. I was after an EX-1 myself for a job that came up, that job went away (turned to RED actually, they decided if they were going to have Rolling Shutter then they had better get something more out of it) so I'm keeping my 200A until the 170 comes out.

I did have a chance to do Side-by-Side real world comparisons with the EX-1 and HVX200A, which involved getting into situations where the EX-1 would fail and it's not that it FAILED at all, it's that these issues exist no matter what.

The 24P looks EXACTLY the same on both cameras. There is no difference.

The HVX200A looks a lot more "organic" than the EX-1, Renders better colors than the EX-1. The EX-1 retains much more detail than the 200A and has a better LCD.

The 200A costs 5299, the EX1 costs 6999.99.

As far as all the CMOS nonsense I'm not too worried about it, I want a Panasonic SD100 specifically for action, which means fast pans etc. Go figure.
 
Kholi, it was nice to hear your thoughts on the EX1 and the HVX200A. You are a professional that has used a lot of different cameras so I always value your opinions. The one thing that you did not include was a noise comparison. What are your thoughts on the levels of noise and low-light capabilities of the 200A with respect to the EX1?
 
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