FAT MONSTER FILMS presents "O2" ... Every. Breath. Counts.

Wow. I just opened this thread and now I see how ambitious the dvxuser projects have become. Man, the competition looks like it's getting steep. Like veryone else, this project is something I'm very interested in seeing!
 
shawneous said:
Ah.

Speaking of that, in another thread, there was talk about the DVXUser fests following the lead of other competition oriented festivals and making it a rule that no one can be paid beyond expense reimbursement. Have you guys given that any thought?
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well if we are gonna do that to even the playing field, lets make sure everyone has to rent the camera they use to.:)
 
shawneous said:
For features? Absolutely! For shorts? No, unless there is revenue potential.
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I think this is actually the problem a lot of times with young film makers. If there is NO money, and people are excited to get something done, awesome. But if you are able to compensate people for their time in any way, why wouldn't you? I don't think there is much revenue potential for 99% of shorts ever made. If you do a lot of shorts, I think you'll find less and less people coming out if you never pay.
 
If there's concern about a level playing field -- there is *never* a level playing field. If nobody's getting paid, does that level the playing field? What about if one guy (who's not paying someone) is shooting on a Red? Doesn't that make it "unfair" against the kid who's shooting on an HV20?

There's absolutely nothing we can do about it. I certainly wouldn't EVER want to encourage or foster an environment where people don't get paid for working hard! If someone does work for you, they deserve to get something out of it -- it'd better at least be gas money, and ideally it should be at least $100/day.

I still find it entertaining that our top 3 winners last time were a simple short with no special effects and nothing fancy, just a few kids in a record store (shot on a Red); a huge production with production value coming out of its ears and professional actors (Where The Heart Lies); and the simplest of simple: two actors sitting on a porch swing (Remember When). And one of the top 10 finishers was a handheld almost-improv piece shot on a consumer camcorder (IFHY, shot Dogme-style on an HV20.) And another top 10 finisher had exquisite production design, gorgeous cinematography, and was shot on an EX1 (Winter Lilacs).

O2 is probably the biggest production ever undertaken for a DVX Fest. But I wouldn't be surprised if the winning film (or, if O2 wins, the second-place film) is yet another little character-oriented piece shot on a consumer camera.

If you want to level the playing field, the only way to do that is to grow your talent. Talent is the only thing that can level the playing field for you. Saying things like "I can't afford to pay, so nobody else should either" is just anti-community. It'd be like saying "I don't have a Red, so nobody else can shoot on one." Or "I don't know any decent actors, so nobody else can hire decent actors." Where does that lead? It leads to suckage. Whereas with the DVXFest as is, turning people loose and encouraging collaborations and growing our skillsets, it's leading to better and better films by better and better filmmakers.

Growing your skillset is part of how you get better; the other way is to grow your circle. If you don't have a Red, meet someone who does. If you don't know any good actors, go meet some. If you don't have any money, either make some, or befriend someone who has it. Those are all parts of the filmmaking game.
 
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Sheesh, my posts were taken the wrong way here. How'd I become the grinch so fast?

Barry, I wasn't complaining, it was a simply talking point. I agree with you that the festival is already level enough. I was one of the people giving 'Remember When' my top vote, I freakin love that film.

J.R. - Am I suggesting paying people is bad??? Why don't you ask me if I've stopped beating my wife? :-)

I could write a massive article on this one but I'll try to be as short as possible.

First, paying people is awesome. I sure wish I had spare money like others do. My Red? Half split with my dad, of my half I've only paid for half, the other half is a big f1cking loan. Why? Because Red doesn't rent that much! Its enough that we're doing okay, but not even close to breaking even. My other gear? over $10k in CC debt. I'm barely able to pay the gas & food required for Timefest, I'm really not capable of paying people. Just to pay my cast and crew minimum wage would blow out way over $1000, making it impossible. Not a sob story, just showing that because you're toting a Red doesn't equate to cash. Thankfully on TimeFest, Ken Kupelian is co-producing and splitting expenses with me.

Then there's the issue of fairness. I am out *shtloads* of money trying to make my films. I have zero revenue source except a day job outside the industry. If I were to make a feature movie, when I make that jump I'll hopefully have solid funding. But on these shorts, where the express purpose is to build skills, I think it is altogether fair that I shoulder the expense of the short and everyone else can shoulder the expense of their time contribution because we are all in this for mutual benefit. On my last short I thought I might have the tiniest amount of revenue potential so I did pay everyone a small amount. My DP, an industry vet with 30 years experience, flat refused my money and I loved him all the more for it. I wish I could pay every time, I can't, at this time. I am up front with my situation, I treat people kindly. Does that make me a bad person?
 
Yeah Shawneous, I saw that you merely asked a question that was brought up elsewhere ... wanted to know if it had ever been discussed or considered.

Maybe the reaction you got was based on other comments you've made about Fat Monster sets (might as well give them first place) and a few other things? Dunno.

I think on the flip side no one is saying you're evil if you don't pay people at this level. For me it's a choice of making films and not paying people (yet) or not making films at all. That's changing but if I get an idea I'm not going to not do it because I can't pay people. I'm going to work with people that like working with me, get actors involved who are excited about the project and who need material for their reels, etc.

Barry and David payed people for Unawakening and A Little Mouth to Feed but I've never payed anyone for any of my shorts with the exception of a nude plus size woman who had to be chained to a table for 4 hours with a prosthetic on her face which made it very difficult to breath - and it was a non-speaking part, what possible benefit could she get from it, certainly not for her reel.

So no one's saying people shouldn't be paid for DVXuser shorts and no one is saying your the Devil if you can't do that right now. Some productions are just to small and if its all agreed on upfront, then it's no different than having a garage band where everyone's in it to make something cool, because they want to.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
Yeah Shawneous, I saw that you merely asked a question that was brought up elsewhere ... wanted to know if it had ever been discussed or considered.

Maybe the reaction you got was based on other comments you've made about Fat Monster sets (might as well give them first place) and a few other things? Dunno.

I think on the flip side no one is saying you're evil if you don't pay people at this level. For me it's a choice of making films and not paying people (yet) or not making films at all. That's changing but if I get an idea I'm not going to not do it because I can't pay people. I'm going to work with people that like working with me, get actors involved who are excited about the project and who need material for their reels, etc.

Barry and David payed people for Unawakening and A Little Mouth to Feed but I've never payed anyone for any of my shorts with the exception of a nude plus size woman who had to be chained to a table for 4 hours with a prosthetic on her face which made it very difficult to breath - and it was a non-speaking part, what possible benefit could she get from it, certainly not for her reel.

So no one's saying people shouldn't be paid for DVXuser shorts and no one is saying your the Devil if you can't do that right now. Some productions are just to small and if its all agreed on upfront, then it's no different than having a garage band where everyone's in it to make something cool, because they want to.
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Thank you Jack, I appreciate it.

As for my comments on O2/Fat Monster...I guess I'm not sure how it was perceived, but I have only the highest level of respect/admiration for this whole enterprise. In fact, I was telling Ken we should try to carpool down and bring an Oregon delegation to the next Fat Monster thing. You guys rock!
 
shawneous said:
For features? Absolutely! For shorts? No, unless there is revenue potential.
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*(not busting on you Shawn, just replying in my way)

IMO, if you can afford to pay anyone to work on your project it is best to do so. I at least offer everyone on my projects gas money. If I could affort pro people to help on my projects would do it in a second. Makes sense to me to pay someone that knows what he is doing. This is a convo I have had with my current sound man. When I do get to the point of doing a feature, he already knows I plan on attempting to hire a real soundman for the project. He is content to work in conjuction with that hired soundman and learn from said person. I am sure the crew on O2 have picked up some points from working with Levie.
 
Just rereading my post as you quoted it and wanted to add:

Paying people is good. Paying people is the right way. Paying people is what we should all be striving towards.

Just wanted to make sure that my "it's OK to not pay if you can't and you won't see any money off the thing because otherwise it woudl be impossible for most of us to make movies" position, was not interpreted as anti-pay. If you can pay you should.
 
shawneous said:
Sheesh, my posts were taken the wrong way here. How'd I become the grinch so fast?
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I was not looking at you in this way Shawn. :engel017:

J.R. - Am I suggesting paying people is bad??? Why don't you ask me if I've stopped beating my wife? :-)
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I understand it but don't condone it. :Drogar-Mark-10(DBG)

First, paying people is awesome. I sure wish I had spare money like others do. My Red? Half split with my dad, of my half I've only paid for half, the other half is a big f1cking loan. Why? Because Red doesn't rent that much! Its enough that we're doing okay, but not even close to breaking even. My other gear? over $10k in CC debt. I'm barely able to pay the gas & food required for Timefest, I'm really not capable of paying people. Just to pay my cast and crew minimum wage would blow out way over $1000, making it impossible. Not a sob story, just showing that because you're toting a Red doesn't equate to cash. Thankfully on TimeFest, Ken Kupelian is co-producing and splitting expenses with me.

Then there's the issue of fairness. I am out *shtloads* of money trying to make my films. I have zero revenue source except a day job outside the industry. If I were to make a feature movie, when I make that jump I'll hopefully have solid funding. But on these shorts, where the express purpose is to build skills, I think it is altogether fair that I shoulder the expense of the short and everyone else can shoulder the expense of their time contribution because we are all in this for mutual benefit. On my last short I thought I might have the tiniest amount of revenue potential so I did pay everyone a small amount. My DP, an industry vet with 30 years experience, flat refused my money and I loved him all the more for it. I wish I could pay every time, I can't, at this time. I am up front with my situation, I treat people kindly. Does that make me a bad person?
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But who has the money ? Some do obviously, and some are really effin good at networking and pulling in resources.

I didn't make a dime sans room and board on FAT MONSTA and couldn't care less; it was the opportunity to work with my main men Tim, Mark and Blaine that got me up to Laurel Canyon.

I got a small stipend on Barry and Jack's couple of shorts but if you saw what was going on BTS, you'd laugh. Full sets being built in BG's garage turned studio, movable walls rotated for reverse shots; and I'm talking slammed up drywall and wallpaper.

But the production value was epic indie style. The bed was a blow up bed with a quilt thrown over it. If you saw the frame Shaun and I built for the air mattress, I assure you, you would not have sat on that bed.

Anyone else remember the water hose in the garage at 5:00 am ?

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And as you bemoan the debt of the camera and equipment, I'm still using my original DVX100 and figuring out a way to get an entry level Arri Kit to teach myself lighting.

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You can have a huge films like The Aviator and its $110,000,000 budget and in sweeps a film like Sideways with barely 20% of that one and their both going toe to toe for the Oscar.

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I've always wanted DVXUSER to foster and spawn true filmmakers, that one day will look back and be standing at podium thanking us.

Paying is good.

but so is innovation and networking.
 
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