Spike Lee rips into Eastwood and the Coens.

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Michael Anthony Horrigan

Michael Anthony Horrigan

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Here's the bulk of the STORY.


Clint's reply... "He should shut his face!"

Flags of Our Fathers was was about the guys who posed for the now famous flag raising picture.

Hasn't Spike Lee seen Bird?

Mike
 
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The guy knows how to make press, I'll give him that.

The only reason I've heard about his film is because this story has been picked up EVERYWHERE.

I love people who understand how media works and know how to control it for their own purpose.

It was a shrewd move weather he believes what he said or not.
 
Spike hasn't been relevant in years, and he really shouldn't be criticizing filmmakers that are better than he. Has Spike made a film better than Unforgiven, or Mystic River, or Fargo, or Barton Fink, or Raising Arizona, or Miller's Crossing? He's had his moments, Do the Right Thing and half of Malcolm X, but he's really not that great. The Coens don't really treat life as a joke but view life as ABSURD. That's really the theme running through most of their work, that try as we might to control the outcome of things, many of our best laid plans are upset by chance.
 
This is about drawing some useful media attention, whipping on the old "boo-hoo-race-is-everything" horse. It's not even a novel thing, for Spike Lee to do.
 
Did Eastwood really say "shut his face"? That doesn't sound like Eastwood at all.

Spike is very political. It's been the driving force behind his films. But I have to say...now that he mentions it, I sort of see where he's coming from. I mean, it is strange that in all those hours of Eastwood's war films everyone was white vs. Japanese. It takes someone more sensitized to the issue to point it out. It's not realistic that there were no black soldiers at all. And if you're Black (I'm not) it probably gets you thinking about these things all over again, for the millionth time in your life. I mean, keep in mind the verrrry long complicated relationship between American wars and black people (i.e., Black people have died in America's wars in a very high percentage compared to white, etc.).

As for Coen Brothers' treatment of death--well Spike is right again--they do treat it as a cinematic opportunity. But I like that! I respect it artistically and philosophically. Movies are metaphors for life (and death). Spike is welcome to treat death differently in his films. Just a different approach. The Coens have a lot to say in their films about life and death, and one of them might very well be a certain nihilistic point of view that life and death aren't that different. That love-making and killing are both moments in time that can deserve cinematic treatment, and one isn't more sacred than another. Spike is saying death is sacred. That's just his point of view.

I loved Do the Right Thing and Crooklyn. But I have to say I loved No Country For Old Men too (one of the best movies I've ever seen).

Sad Max said:
This is about drawing some useful media attention, whipping on the old "boo-hoo-race-is-everything" horse. It's not even a novel thing, for Spike Lee to do.
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For Spike race is everything. From his point of view, his nose has been rubbed in it for his whole life. Unless you're Black, I think it's hard to relate to that.
 
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sean90291 said:
For Spike race is everything. In his eyes, his nose has been rubbed in it for his whole life. Unless you're Black, I think it's hard to relate to that.
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My family happens to be Jewish, and includes members who find cause to endlessly ***** and moan about how Jews have had it rough, etc, etc, etc.

I leave the room, as soon as I see them coming. Whinging about about your particular group's problems - real *and* imagined - for your own personal advantage is repellent, no matter who's doing it, whether I happen to be within the same group, or not.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Comment can be found HERE

His movie was base around the guys in the photo, they were all white if I recall.
Mike
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That's interesting. Hm. I don't know a lot about the history of that photo...but I know it was STAGED. I mean, I'm just offering some conjecture here. That was a staged photo, with soldiers selected for the moment (i.e., white soldiers). A photo-op for America. I don't think all the soldiers on the mission were white.

But hey, Spke Lee is a political animal. He has an agenda, and I think it's totally in his right to say what he wants and he'll take his lumps if necessary. At least his movies are ABOUT SOMETHING. I'd take Do the Right Thing over Pirates of the Carribean any day. ;-)

Sad Max said:
My family happens to be Jewish, and includes members who find cause to endlessly ***** and moan about how Jews have had it rough, etc, etc, etc.

I leave the room, as soon as I see them coming. Whinging about about your particular group's problems - real *and* imagined - for your own personal advantage is repellent, no matter who's doing it, whether I happen to be within the same group, or not.
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Yup, I'm Jewish too. I've had a similar reaction as yours...but I know where it's coming from. And so I respect where it's coming from, even if it's sometimes misguided. Though I do think that anti-Semitism is almost non-existent in my world, whereas racism against blacks is pretty prevalent. I just think people have these ponts of view for a reason and can't be so easily dismissed. I'm not sure how imagined it is, even if it unnecessarily takes over their life.
 
Movies are politics. Movies say something about the world...at least if they're any good. Aren't we allowed to discuss the movie's and the filmmaker's point of view? I think that's really valuable to filmmaking. Isn't it? Otherwise, all we talk about is lattitude and resolution and tape stock. Ugh!

I think it would be pretty political to NOT allow people to point out when a film is racist (and I'm not saying that Eastwood's films are...but obviously Spike Lee thought so, and I think it's worth at least asking the question whether Lee is right).

More problematic than whether the issue is "political" is simply how angry the discussion can make people. I'm not feeling heated at all. I'm really just interested and hope we as filmmakers are willing to think about these sorts of questions. I guess I think filmmakers have a role to play as storytellers. We don't make movies in a vaccuum. We affect people. I think we have to acknowledge HOW we are affecting people.
 
sean90291 said:
That's interesting. Hm. I don't know a lot about the history of that photo...but I know it was STAGED. I mean, I'm just offering some conjecture here. That was a staged photo, with soldiers selected for the moment (i.e., white soldiers). A photo-op for America. I don't think all the soldiers on the mission were white.
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That's fine... but the movie was based on the people IN the photo. Staged or not.

It's not like he had a white guy play Bird. Seriously, Lee is just looking for press.
Maybe if he makes a great film this century he might not have to do this sort of thing. :D
 
I think Spike's agenda is the thing that prevents him from becoming a great filmmaker. He could've been the black Scorsese, but Scorsese's films, while definitely reflecting a strong ethnic identity, are ultimately about all of human nature. They are specific in detail but universal in theme. Spike's films too often are filled with characters created solely to make a point, rather than be examined on a human level.
 
Simon Höfer said:
I think Lees point was not the group of soldiers. He said in the entire movie. Like there are other soldiers running around. In the background for example.
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Well, I didn't look through the film with this in mind. I wonder though, who here has seen the film?

I mean... the story follows these guys around and how they deal with the picture and the publicity that follows. It's their life stories after all.
 
You can see why Eastwood might feel burned. I mean, he made an entire movie from the Japanese perspective (Letters from Iwo Jima). Flags of our Father was the one about the American soldiers.

MikeGunter said:
Hi all,

Three white guys and one Native American... Ira Hayes.
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In the photo? Oh yeah, that was Adam Beach who played the Native guy. I forgot about that.
 
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