mp- compresion
Indoor Shoot for Feature - Choosing the Audio Equipment
- Thread starter armadillo
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mp- compresion
Steve House
Veteran
The NT-3 is a good sounding mic but it's mighty big and heavy to swing out on the end of a boom for dialog recording unless you've been able to get a gorilla for a boom-op. The Oktava has a good reputation for quality at a bargain price. You might also consider the AKG Blueline SE300B/CK93 combination or the Audio Technica 4053a hypers.
I think I must be misunderstanding your statement. How could a boom operator be a hindrance?
SFX
SFX
By that I mean that the mic will be planted just out of frame at a position that allows ideal sound capture. All a boom operator would add in that situation is the noise of shuffling around and the risk of dropping the mic into frame.
Naturally there are some scenes that require a boom op, but I am blocking the shots out carefully and, especially in the case of shots where the actors are stationary, a boom mic operator won't be necessary.
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Not to question your plan but a mic not only must be close but it must be consistent. If your talent is moving in any way, turning head, etc then the sound will drop and/or go off-axis and you will not be happy with the results.
If you are blocked in such a way that this is not a problem (everyone sitting down facing mic) than have at it but if you are not familiar with how this works I think you will be surprise how easily your boom becomes inconsistent if you are not following the action.
I have done interviews where the boom is on a stand pointing down on a mark; direct the talent to stand and mark and do invterview. Standing people naturally wobble around, shift weight, turn head evn though speaking to the camera. Very rarely is talent standing on same mark by end of interview unless you constantly remind them. The same reason you can't lock the camera off in a CU, is same reason a boom on a stand is a tricky proposition unless the speaker is sitting down and focused forward the whole time. For narratives this tends to be very unnatural and wooden.
If you got boom ops that "shuffle" and drop into frame anything but rarely then you need to find better boom ops.
Cheers
If you are blocked in such a way that this is not a problem (everyone sitting down facing mic) than have at it but if you are not familiar with how this works I think you will be surprise how easily your boom becomes inconsistent if you are not following the action.
I have done interviews where the boom is on a stand pointing down on a mark; direct the talent to stand and mark and do invterview. Standing people naturally wobble around, shift weight, turn head evn though speaking to the camera. Very rarely is talent standing on same mark by end of interview unless you constantly remind them. The same reason you can't lock the camera off in a CU, is same reason a boom on a stand is a tricky proposition unless the speaker is sitting down and focused forward the whole time. For narratives this tends to be very unnatural and wooden.
If you got boom ops that "shuffle" and drop into frame anything but rarely then you need to find better boom ops.
Cheers
Not to question your plan but a mic not only must be close but it must be consistent. If your talent is moving in any way, turning head, etc then the sound will drop and/or go off-axis and you will not be happy with the results.
If you are blocked in such a way that this is not a problem (everyone sitting down facing mic) than have at it but if you are not familiar with how this works I think you will be surprise how easily your boom becomes inconsistent if you are not following the action.
I have done interviews where the boom is on a stand pointing down on a mark; direct the talent to stand and mark and do invterview. Standing people naturally wobble around, shift weight, turn head evn though speaking to the camera. Very rarely is talent standing on same mark by end of interview unless you constantly remind them. The same reason you can't lock the camera off in a CU, is same reason a boom on a stand is a tricky proposition unless the speaker is sitting down and focused forward the whole time. For narratives this tends to be very unnatural and wooden.
If you got boom ops that "shuffle" and drop into frame anything but rarely then you need to find better boom ops.
Cheers
Advice always welcome and appreciated.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
You nailed it Wabbit. I only use stationary boom for sitdown interviews where the talent is in a chair and has been told to stay there. Standing scenes are a whole different ballgame.
Good post.
Dan
Good post.
Dan
I only plant mics when I can't boom, don't have a boom op or there is no room for my boom op AND (and this part is important), AND planting a mic will work. In my experience, a boom op is almost always better than a plant mic and the idea that a boom op is liability to a project is a by-product of some common, unfortunate and very backwards beliefs about production sound.
Fair enough. I have been on a mission to minimize crew for quick production / and a minimalistic and natural set environemtn to facilitate the actors' work. That said, I do appreciate the wisdom of including a boom op when practical / available.
And I certainly don't want to quell any advice that is coming from the community on any aspect of filmmaking.
So I will take the boom op comments to heart and continue trying to get to the bottom of what sound quality I can achieve with the A1's system in HD mode...
And I certainly don't want to quell any advice that is coming from the community on any aspect of filmmaking.
So I will take the boom op comments to heart and continue trying to get to the bottom of what sound quality I can achieve with the A1's system in HD mode...
I'm just working with what I've got and trying to do the best job possible. That's why I'm taking it upon myself to learn as much as I can about these areas so that if it falls on my shoulders I can make the right decisions in the field.
Like I said, I'm not a sound guy, but I learn very quickly, retain almost everything, and I can do a lot with the right information.
Anyway, it probably goes without saying that I'm not voluntarily opting to have no sound department. If I had Spielberg behind me, I'd be in a soundstage with three guys on every job just so that two could double check everything.
But I am pretty much the sound department. I can spend my money on the equipment but not necessarily on expert personnel. If I have a sufficient understanding of how to operate things, then I can plug in laymen and give them specific instructions. I am willing to do the work to design a virtually idiot-proof shoot.
I'm just trying to find the best way to maximize sound performance with what I have, so that I can design accordingly...
But I am pretty much the sound department. I can spend my money on the equipment but not necessarily on expert personnel. If I have a sufficient understanding of how to operate things, then I can plug in laymen and give them specific instructions. I am willing to do the work to design a virtually idiot-proof shoot.
I'm just trying to find the best way to maximize sound performance with what I have, so that I can design accordingly...
That sounds good, and I'm not trying to minimize or insult the sound profession. That approach just isn't an option for me if I want to get things done right now so I am willing to spend all extra hours of the day learning about it right now in order to move things forward.
I literally don't have the money to spend on an expert sound crew. But I am willing to purchase reasonably priced, adequate equipment and make the majority of my mistakes in pre-film testing.
It really is the only option, so all I can do is agree that yes, sound is an art. The fact that it is a complicated art and science is what causes me to ask so many questions. If it were simple, I would have figured it out on my own a while back along with the Rubik's cube...
But all I can really afford to do is agree with you that it is an art and then do my best to get a handle on that art. I won't lie. It's not where my interest truly lies in the film business. I am not passionate about the art of sound. But I am passionate about making good films and not having them compromised by failures to attend to or learn about or understand the art of sound, which I do respect...
10s
Veteran
Just get the gear & play with it, that's how you'll learn, but give yourself some time and remember to read up on the theory & technical end. It's good to learn enough of everything even if that's not what you want to specialize in. It'll just make you that much smarter and aware of the things needing consideration while planning & executing your production, and it's fun.
I like the Robert Ridriguez spirit. RR actually used a radio shack casstte type recorder and a cheap mic for his 1st film. He recorded each scene after they shot it on film. He had them do each scene again and he would move with them with a cheap mic and casstte recorder getting the audio. True Wild audio! Of course the sync was off in post so that forced him to cut often which then generated a buzz in the festival circut about this guy with a very different style, and that led him toward success.
Just get the gear and go to work. If you have the drive & persistence it'll all work out well. Break a leg.
I like the Robert Ridriguez spirit. RR actually used a radio shack casstte type recorder and a cheap mic for his 1st film. He recorded each scene after they shot it on film. He had them do each scene again and he would move with them with a cheap mic and casstte recorder getting the audio. True Wild audio! Of course the sync was off in post so that forced him to cut often which then generated a buzz in the festival circut about this guy with a very different style, and that led him toward success.
Just get the gear and go to work. If you have the drive & persistence it'll all work out well. Break a leg.
ullanta
Veteran
As I said, I understand where you're coming from. My concern is not you, it's:
This seems to be where the art is dropping out a bit too much. Perhaps I'm a bit confused on your actual role? Are you someone looking to develop skills/work as a "sound guy", or a filmmaker looking for the best cheap way to handle sound for your film?
If it's the latter, your $700 may well get you a student/upstart with equipment who will be better than a "quickly instructed layman." If you're the former... where do the laymen come in? But... if the former... then you're on an OK path to build some experience.
This seems to be where the art is dropping out a bit too much. Perhaps I'm a bit confused on your actual role? Are you someone looking to develop skills/work as a "sound guy", or a filmmaker looking for the best cheap way to handle sound for your film?
If it's the latter, your $700 may well get you a student/upstart with equipment who will be better than a "quickly instructed layman." If you're the former... where do the laymen come in? But... if the former... then you're on an OK path to build some experience.
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Steve House
Veteran
Remember all business decisions boil down to making a fundamental choice between Make or Buy. Inferior sound is not an option if your film is to be accepted by an audience, period, end of story. To avoid it, you have to have certain skills present in your crew. You choice is to either buy them, in the form of hiring a sound person who will bring along (for a fee) his own sound kit, or to make them, in the form of training someone to use gear you own or rent, or yourself, into a comparable expert. There are no autopilots on the gear to where you can buy the right toys, tell a conscript what buttons to push and where to put the meter, and get good results from it. It just doesn't work like that.
rafaeldelauz
Well-known member
Dude you have to make your movie with what you have and don't listen to anybody else. It's going to be full of mistakes, but who cares, it's the only way of learning. It's more important for you to make a movie than participate in a forum. Go ahead and shoot it and have a lot of fun, fun and fun. Making movies is great experience and that's the only important thing, **** everything else
I am a filmmaker looking for the best cheap way to handle sound for my film.
As long as I have sufficient knowledge to impart and supervise, I will take a reliable, punctual and trustworthy layman any day over a flaky film student that may or may not show when I get everyone assembled for a given day.
I have been working with a given crew for a while, many of whom have big stars in their eyes but aren't willing to do any grunt work. So be it. I am taking care of business on my own and that means learning enough about the areas that aren't really my area of expertise or professional interest in order to get the job done...
If I come across a reliable film student then fantastic. But I'll take the equipment and some knowledge instead for my $700 if possible. Then I can use that equipment any time and also pass on the knowledge to whoever is helping me, any time...
I am reading up, make no mistake... I just have 100 things to do and if I can get to the bottom of some of my sound issues without the reading equivalent of a bachelor's degree in physics it will make life a bit easier with my workload!
Agreed. But I am pretty much at the point of making a good movie on most technical fronts. I've had my learning experiences and gotten the idiot mistakes out of my system (I have done a project where I did not attend properly to sound and learned my lesson).
Sound is basically the missing link right now to keep this project from flying at a professional level, as much as I may sound like an overall incompetent to some in this thread.
I know there's no turnkey solution for perfect sound. But I am a firm believer that acceptable sound can be achieved within my price range and even with me supervising, provided I get my knowledge to a certain level.
The people on this board will be surprised when I am done this project...
What can I say. I wasn't planning on having to oversee all aspects of production but I don't mind doing it. I just find that the best advice will be working within my parameters of "these are my means, I have to get it done, time is a factor" rather than suggestions that sound can not be mastered in a day.
I know it can't. I don't expect to be winning the audio Oscar for my project. But I'll be damned if I can't make a movie where the audio is good enough that it doesn't take the audience out of the story...