Feature edited 1080/60 client wants 1080/23.98

O

Omar67

Active member
Greetings,

I shot and edited a feature on the HVX200 (Firestore 160 which adds reduncant frames) which was shot at 24p (not advanced). The film is completely edited and has been outputed to HDCAM 1080/60, HDV 1080i/60 tape, and numerous other NTSC formats (16x9 4x3) and an additional Quicktime file of the entire feature with a DNxHD codec for storage. Most of the sales i do in the past is for TV broadcast and the client always requests 1080i/60.

I have a new client that wants this same film 1080p/23.98. How do I do a removal of frames in AVID and not have to redo every single clip (like Raylight software does for MXF files). I know Final Cut pro has Cinema Tools that extracts redundant frames etc. How do i do this for A) a project that was not produced on 24pA and B) reducing redundant frames without changing every individual clip? Can this be done in AVID or a third party software project where it will do the entire sequence (movie). Is it possible to accomplish this, quickly, easily and without loss of quality of the original edited film. Is there a software program where i can take the quicktime file and it will do redundant frame removals automatically?

Thanx,
Omar
 
There is an Effect called timewarp:pulldown removal, but I've never used it.

I think you could consolidate the sequences to make master clips of the sub clips and then use DV Film's MXFX to remove the 2:3 pulldown from the new master clips. I think you'll have to do them individually, but the consolidate should drop everything in a single working drive which should make it easy to do. You'll then have to open a new project in a 24P timeline and rebuild the sequences manually. It would be a couple days of work, but it would be lossless.

Bob
 
Yeah, I was thinking of doing something like that. My problem is essentially Raylight MXFX seems only to work on my system if the original media was stored in the original conent folder on the drive. Most of these folders, i broke up (way back when) so they would be saved as AvidMediaFiles with subfolders MXF. Everytime i attempt to change the frame rate in AvidMediaFiles an error is reported and it won't convert the frame rate. Also, even if i were to consoldate or transcode sections of the film, wouldn't they be saved as DNxHD files? Then how can I change the frame rate on those files. Someone mentioned having the dub house simply transfer the HDCAM tape at 1080/60 to 1080/23.98 by using a Terranex or a Snell & Wilcox cross converter. Has anyone had any success with those devices when changing frame rates? Does it create motion problems? How bad with the frame rate be off?

Thanx Omar

 
Consolidate does not change the CODEC, it just copies the needed subclips to new masterclips if you are consolidating a sequence. You also have to close Avid to run MXFX on the file(s)

To be very specific:
  • Get a removable drive and mount it up as a new drive letter: 'Q'.
  • Consolidate onto Q from the 60i project.
  • Close Avid
  • Run Raylight MXFX on all the clips on 'Q'
  • Start Avid and create a new 24P project
  • Open the media tool and scan the Q drive
  • Load all clips into a bin
  • Manually re-create all the sequences in the 24P project.
It should work losslessly and on the same CODEC as the source material.

Bob
 
Thank you both for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated. The dub house is actually going to use a Snell & Wilcox cross converter. They apparently do this type of work alot to deliver clients needs (60, 1080p,23.98 PAL etc.). Changing frame rates for various clients such as NBC etc. But I am going to use your notes and do some experiments for future projects.

thanx a ton,

Omar
 
Just a note for the future . . .

Even if the client requests a 29.97 final output, it's probably better to shoot 24pA and edit as 24p. Then you can output as 29.97 if you want, and you'll still have all the 24p options available and avoid stuff like this.
 
Hmmm thanx. Actually how can i output at 29.97 when editing at 1080/24p? Would i need a Mojo? I have never edited in AVID at 1080/24p. I can only output via a firewire (or export to an external drive for HDCAM output). Also, what would be the best way to create the 1080/60 from a 1080/24p edit. Export as a quicktime DNxHD file and then import the quicktime file in 1080/60? When exporting on quicktime, would i change the frame rate? Or AVID adds the extra frames when importing at 1080/60? etc.

this is interesting - thanx for the notes etc.

Omar
 
You will need some type of helper application to get 1080 24P into Avid.

I use DV Rack that has a QT Avid file type that works well (removes the pulldown and puts it into an Avid friendly format). I have to import into DNxHD using 601/709 colorspace and it seems to be lossless (which is what Serious Magic claimed). SM has since been acquired by Adobe and QT Avid was removed from DV Rack when they renamed it OnLocation. You might find a used copy somewhere...

The other option is to use Raylight MXFX as stated above. Shoot to P2, offload to disk, remove pulldown with MXFX, copy to Avid Mediafiles\#\ Start Avid in a 24P project, open the Media Tool, and drag clips to the bin. Not only is it lossless, its still in DVCProHD (which is a bit of a hat trick since DVCProHD does not actually support 1080 24P. I get error popups but everything seems to work OK, including export -> QT same as source.) MXFX can also flip the image if you are using a lens adapter (but this does do a decompress / recompress step).

Bob
 
Bob,

Thanx a ton now for THE question :)

I have a new client who wants to shoot on 1080p/23.976 and edit on that format. The client also wants to import some of separate footage that is on a HDV 1080i/60 tape and edit that footage on a 1080p/23.976 timeline.
The deliverables are as follows

HDCAM 1080p/23.976
Digital Betacam NTSC 29.97 (4x3 and 16x9)
DVD ntsc
HDV 1080i/60 tape as a backup

A) Okay so i shoot on the HVX200 24pA - i load in the footage via my firestore. I make a copy of the footage on a separte drive. I then make a use Raylight MXFX to do a pulldown removal.
B) I open up AVID and start editing in 1080p/23.98

now
1) How do i bring in a HDV 1080i/60 (which was originally shot on a HVX200 but was backed up on a HDV tape shot at 24p non-advanced) and bring it into 1080p/23.976?
2) How do i create Digibeta NTSC copies from a 1080p/23.976 timeline? Essentially renting a HDCAM deck and having it export? But won't i need some form of cross converter to have a NTSC Digibeta copy from a 1080p/23.976 HDCAM tape player?
3) Is there a way through Sorenson Squeeze to create a NTSC DVD off of a 1080p/23.976 timeline with little or no jidder or frame lags? I would need this to show the client, before i make an HDCAM output so he can approve the output before i rent the deck.

ALOT of questions i know, but it seems that there are so many different formats that clients ask for and i am always trying to come up with the best way to deliver a solid product to a client.

Thanx,

Omar
 
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