Live Sports Production with HPX

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Evan Shaw

Member
Hey Guys, I looked through the search function, but couldn't find what I'm looking for. I direct live sporting events for my university and we're currently looking into upgrading our cameras. My idea is to purchase a few HPXs so we can use them for standard shooting (commercials, packages etc.), and then be able to integrate them into our live setup on game days. We're running into a Grass Valley 3000. Currently, all of our cameras are triax. Are there any options for rigging the 500 up for multicam shoots? What about wireless options? Any info/links that you could pass along would be great.

Thanks a lot

Evan
 
Hi Evan,

The 500's will work great for your packages, but it will be a challenge using them along with your triax based system. You'll have to have operators that know what they are doing because you're going to lose the ability to shade on the fly from the truck or your control booth like you probably have with your triax system. And a good wireless system will cost you some major bucks. The cheapest reliable wireless COFDM systems out there cost around $10k a pop, and if you want something quality, you're literally talking $60 grand for something like an SD "Link Systems" setup, $125k for HD. Not that you need that, but we actually rent one sometimes for the Fresno State football games to use for crowd shots.

But if you want to use them, even composite, you'll have to run a cable for composite, a genloc cable, a seperate communications systems cable and a seperate tally system, plus the operator has to do all of the shading. They say that the output of the camera is also a couple of frames behind if that makes a difference. Wireless, depending on the quality, can be up to 500ms behind (the good ones are only 25ms delay) which can severly impact live shots being cut with everything else. It's definitely not impossible by any means, but you will lose a lot of the feature that you are used to with your triax based system (everything being integrated into 1 cable).

What kind of cameras and setup are you currently using?
 
Thats not true Kit.

You can buy a Camplex system and the RCU unit for the HPX500 and it is just like running on a triax.

The RCU hooks into the camplex and gives you iris and painting abilities while the camplex unit powers the camera, provides intercom, tally, and return video.

Your looking at probably $20,000 per camera for the RCU and camplex boxes, but it works.
 
Although Camplex systems are fine, by the time you spend the $20k per camera, you could have gotten better stuff. For $20k per camera, you could go entirely wireless. Evan is talking about purchasing HPX500's. I just assume that most of the time when people are getting into 500's , they're on a budget.

I never said that was sthe "only" way to do it, but it is one of the only "cost effective" ways to do it. I don't ever recommend people get a camplex system unless they already have existing cameras that they must make work.
 
I agree that by the time you spend the $40,000 per camera(ballpark figure) you could get some better equipment.

I would check out the Hitachi cameras or some used Sony cameras, but it will be hard to find used HD cameras.

Some of the XD cameras can be used in a Triax.
 
I'm not entirely sure what camera's we're running now. But they're in some MAJOR need of replacement. From the sounds of it, I think we'll just go ahead and stick to our original plans and buy a new camera package solely for the truck. I was just looking into ways to possibly save $$ by doubling up on ENG cameras as PROD cameras for the time being. Thanks for the replies, they were really helpful!

Evan
 
Maybe even the jvc250 series with triax adapter might work for you? They are only 1/3" but make for a nice image.
 
I second the jvc250 with studio adapter, they also teamed up with libre for a great wireless solution. I don't think it's picture compares to the hpx500, but for live events, it's a great setup.
 
hunter richards said:
Maybe even the jvc250 series with triax adapter might work for you? They are only 1/3" but make for a nice image.
Click to expand...

If they are throwing their cable down for each game then those cameras would work just fine, but if they are using a Triax system that is built into the stadium to keep from running super long cables then that wouldn't be very budget friendly.

The cable run ability as far as length goes is less on multicore to compared to Triax. It also isn't as reliable in the field or easy to make repairs to. If a multicore cable is damaged in the field you better have a backup. You can get by with it in the studio though.

I say your best bet are the Hitachi's, Ikegami's, or Sony cameras based on a Triax system. It limits you to just your truck, but they work well.
 
Well certian cameras are dockable. Like the sony DXC and BVP series. It takes about two minutes to take the back off and put on a recorder. Some Ikegami's and hitachi's can do this too.

By the way what cameras are they. I've been collecting old cameras and donating them to churchs and tv stations in south america?
 
Do you have a link to TVPRO gears solution? I tried to find it on their web site, but couldn't. They need a redesign of their site really bad.
 
Yeah really. It's mentioned in their flypack PDF. I talked to some one there about it. It's a 25 pin multicore cable breakout box that mounts to the back of the camera. You might want to talk to them though.
 
Multicore? :thumbdown :tongue:

Like I said earlier. It works great in the studio, but its a nightmare in the field. For me anyway.

If they could do it over Triax or plain ol' coax that would be awesome. I think I found it on their website. It is made by a company called Telemetrics.

If that is what you are talking about it looks like you can get systems from them that will work with dockable cameras all the way down to a camera like the DVX or PD-170 for around $8000.
 
Yeah, those telemetrics systems look cool. I wish I had stopped by at NAB to check them out.

They have a triax adapter system:
http://www.telemetricsinc.com/html/Triax.html

They also have a coax version, which I am not quite clear on, but for some reason it liiks like you can run everything over coax? Hrmm.. That's pretty crazy if that works:
http://www.telemetricsinc.com/html/coaxLink.html

Talk about low cable costs. It would be pretty nifty if it works good. I may just have to look into these things. I'm going to call them....
 
So I just talked to sales at telemetrics and the systems are pretty cool. There is the triax system, coax system and HD Fiber system.

Triax = $12k
Coax = $6k
HD Fiber = $10k

They all do signal (obviously), shading, intercom, tally, genlock and come with either a AB or V-mount to put right on the camera. You control all of those things with the panasonic remote - I think $1k to $2k.

Not too bad. The HD system has HD-SDI. Get you one of those new Panasnic Mixers with the multiviewers, 4 HPX500's w/ some SD lenses, and you could be out the door for $80k - $100k for a full live HD Setup. Wow!

A lot cheaper than the "other guys".
 
That is the beauty of Camplex and this Telemetrics system. Coax is super cheap compared to Triax and if a cable is damaged during production it takes about a minute to re-terminate a cable.

The cost of their Coax box is a steal. I am for sure going to keep them in mind when I build out my Production trailer.

The Panni RCU lists for over $4k on panasonic.com so I would say you could get it in the $3k range. Maybe cheaper if you bought 4 or more of them.

I was hoping that this camera would evolve into a OB production camera and now it has for me anyway.

Edit: The only downfall of the HD fiber system is the cost of cable and being able to repair it in the field. You better carry a couple of backups with you. Too much of a bend or strain on fiber and it is gone until you splice it which takes a while. The fastest splice I have ever seen in person was around an hour. I don't know how many strands he had to splice though.

If you can't tell I am paranoid about gear failing in the field.
 
But if you want the HD, you really need to go fiber. Some fiber is not that bad cost wise, but I do agree that you do need to be careful with it. You may be able to do soe short runs with Coax, but anything mildly long for HD, I would definitely stick with the fiber. But if you can provide a full HD-SDI rig with cameras and a switcher, all digital, you'll be in demand. I'm 99% sure this is the route I am going to go, although I would like if possible to get a GV Kalypso baby HD switcher or something that I can expand onto. You could travel and do shows with that rig - it would make a great little flypack and you could make some serious money off of it.
 
I plan on building a 24' trailer similar to the sony mpv. I want to use the HPX cameras and a GVG switcher though.

I am in Arkansas and there aren't any HD trucks around the area.

I am not sure how much to rent it for, but I think it will be very popular since it has a small footprint, but can do what a 53' full size truck can do.
 
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but the camera RCU's are only $1600 List each, which will probably put them around $1199 street, unless you go with a single RCU to control all of your cameras.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...mId=95974&catGroupId=14573&surfModel=AW-CB400

I too heavily considered putting together an OB truck. I looked into a couple of 24-53 foot trailers, but I have decided against it now because fuel is getting so expensive. I would like to put together a small HD ENG van instead, which I think will be a bit more affordable for both myself and our clients. I would love to go with a nice GV or Sony, but they are just so damn expensive. A 2+ ME "real" switcher and control surface can set you back over $100k, not going that route.

Let me ask you guys this... What is a good switcher (not the Panasonic 300 or 400) that handles HD-SDI that is still relatively affordable? I'm talking under $15k. I actually like the TV One C2-7260 and the CC-300 Control Surface, looks like it will provide most of what we need. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Kit
 
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