Fixing Dark Video in FCP?

P

Paintedsheep

Member
Hello,
New here. I just shot a short in 16mm and had a light meter issue for half of the 3 rolls I used...Most of that is about 3-4 stops too dark
I got the film transfered onto mini-dv and captured into FCP.
I'm brand new to FCP...just bought a Powermac G5 (used) and literally have about 1 hour using FCP.
Any pointers on lightening up the dark areas (that should be light--like faces)?
And please don't say "adjust the brightness," first of all that just makes it look like crap, and I'm looking for a technical answer from someone who is experienced with FCP...details please...I'm really new to the program.
Thanks!
 
Add color corrector 3-way filter. Bring up the mids slider...By the way, you should have had the transfer house brighten it while transfering to DV.
 
Yeah I'd get it retransferred. You can only go so far with color correction from a really dark transfer before your contrast is flattened and you're awash in noise.

Noah
 
Well you have run into an inherent issue with film. If you don't expose it right...you are in trouble. Since it is 4 stops too dark. And assuming you mean brighten the faces, if those are 4 stops too dark I would hate to know how the rest of the frame looks. Essentially you can't do anything with it and have it still look good.

What you need to do is get it pulled at the lab. Which requires you to get what is called a best light telecine on the footage so they can correct for the subtle differences, or major differences in lighting. I don't even know if they can salvage it or not.

But since it has already been telecined - there isn't much you can do aside from live with it.

I suppose you could try to bring it into After Effects and adjust the curves and levels. I don't know if you can do that within Final Cut or not. But I would look for curves or levels. You might be able to push the mids a little bit.

And yes, I do shoot film often.
 
Believe me, I've thought of all the "Should have done" scenarios on my own...didn't really need help with that, lol.
If I HAD know that the footage was going to be underexposed...I WOULD have told the lab to push it. Since I didn't...I couldn't.
I don't see how getting it re-transfered would make any difference. I'm not very familiar with the Telecine but I don't see how they could brighten it once it's already been developed. Excuse me if I'm ignorant.
I'm not getting it re-transfered though, it was expensive and time-consuming the first time.
The faces are dark but not the rest of the frame because I was shooting into a moving vehicle which was occupied by my actors. Depending on what monitor I view the footage on, their faces are darkish----to silhouetted.
Using the color corrector is great advice...but it's very tricky...a FCP novice such as myself will do more harm then good...
What about layering 2 of each of the clips on top of one another to brighten the highlights?
Is there a way to do that in FCP?
Thanks
 
Paintedsheep said:
Believe me, I've thought of all the "Should have done" scenarios on my own...didn't really need help with that, lol.
If I HAD know that the footage was going to be underexposed...I WOULD have told the lab to push it. Since I didn't...I couldn't.
I don't see how getting it re-transfered would make any difference. I'm not very familiar with the Telecine but I don't see how they could brighten it once it's already been developed. Excuse me if I'm ignorant.
I'm not getting it re-transfered though, it was expensive and time-consuming the first time.
The faces are dark but not the rest of the frame because I was shooting into a moving vehicle which was occupied by my actors. Depending on what monitor I view the footage on, their faces are darkish----to silhouetted.
Using the color corrector is great advice...but it's very tricky...a FCP novice such as myself will do more harm then good...
What about layering 2 of each of the clips on top of one another to brighten the highlights?
Is there a way to do that in FCP?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Film negative has a lot more latitude than video. So if you go back and retransfer at a brighter level you'll have better luck. Otherwise as said above- use the 3 way color corrector and the brightness filter. There's not much else to it but prayer about what could have been. You live and learn. :violent5:

Noah
 
Ouch Dude, DV? Are you going back to film in the end? If yes, then deal with the DV, cause it's just a place holder. Brighten it with the 3-way CC, but it will look like crap.

If, for some reason, in the year 2008, you shot film and plan on finishing DV, then do what is said above - go get it re-telecine'd. You don't want to pull it though, you want to PUSH it. Try pushing 2 stops. Depending on the stock (I'm guessing Kodak 7218 or 19) it may look ok. Just know it's going to be grainy and milky.

Then in FCP, you can raise the mids a bit more, blast the highlights, and lower the blacks (to hide some of that milkyness).

I gotta tell you though, 4 stops is tough though, it's gonna have a look of some sort, that you probably wont like. There's no magic double the clips and add them together and get better exposure filter. If you do that, you're essentially just doubling the brightness, but that wont bring back info clipped in the blacks, and it will bring up a ton of icky 4:1:1 compression artifacts and other crappy digital noise.

While we're at it, if you do decide to go back and get a new telecine, why don't you ask if they can just cut you a quicktime in DVCproHD 720 or 1080... or ProRes. Most Post houses can do that these days. Then you can edit and finish your film in HD on the cheap. If they can't do that, have them bust it out to D5 or HDCAM, then have another house rip you a digital file. The whole thing will probably cost an extra, well worth it, 500 bucks, if you play your cards right.

Dude, DV is gone.
 
Yeah I know DV is gone...
It's just a simple little short for a very small competition...I wouldn't have even done it if I didn't decide to shoot in film. I just wanted some more film experience...I'm finishing to DV right now because that's the only way I have to capture.
I've only got a couple weeks to get this ready so anything that recommends going back to the Post house is out of the question...I just need something to make the film presentable for the competition..thats all. I don't want to spend another dollar at this point. Down the road, I don't mind putting more time/money into it but not now.
I've read twice now of combining duplicate clips and applying a filter called Add to bring out the highlights...they say it leaves the blacks..black.
Any advice on that?
 
Assuming you have FCS2 you'd have better luck taking the footage into Apple Color and manipulating it there than using the 3-Way inside FCP. I know you said you didn't want to sink any more money into it, but Greame Nattress has some stellar plugins for Color that will help keep the image clean as you work with it ($150 for the suite).

If you decide to stay inside FCP you can use masks along w/the 3-Way to isolate just the faces so you can try to limit your correction to just the flesh tones w/o washing out the rest of the frame. Feel free to post samples and I'm sure people will take a quick stab at fixing it up. It's kinda hard to give advice w/o seeing the problem first hand.


-A
 
Well, DV isn't gone. Just as film isn't gone. Most of the stuff that comes out of the lab is on a mini-dv tape. Realize that most captures are done on mini-dv tapes especially for the independent. It is only a medium in which to hold the image. You record HDV on mini-DV do you not?

if, for some reason, in the year 2008, you shot film and plan on finishing DV
Click to expand...

Actually, many productions are shot film and finish in video. How do you think most major television shows and commercials are shot? On film, and then edited and distributed on video. Unless your TV is a projector...

DV is far from gone. Just like film is far from gone. You are on the DVX user forum...The DVX is...DV...

But to the topic at hand - like we said, you aren't going to be able to pull information out of the shadow areas after the telecine had been done. It simply won't happen. You can tweak it a bit in color, which I recommend more than the in FCP stuff. Or if you can't navigate color, use After Effects, or send it off to a colourist. And they might be able to save it a little bit anyways.

Best of luck on it. Though if you have the time, which is a week to two weeks, send it to another lab and have them re-telecine it. It is the only way you can pull more information out. If you don't want to do that - you have to live with it basically. There isn't a magic way to fix it.
 
Those plug-ins look pretty cool.
Hey Ryan...are you a member of dfwindie forums as well? Just curious since you're from the area.

I appreciate everyone's help. I guess I'll just have to play around with it and see if I can get an acceptable image for the competition.
Since I'm new top FCP I was hoping for someone to say "sure, you just push that button and it magically fixes dark video!" Hahahahahahahhaa
Oh well. Garbage in ...garbage out.
One things for sure...I'll never shoot film again with a half working light meter.
I'll rent one before I do that.

Also, I don't really believe that DV is dead...I feel more confident now with owning my DVX than if I'd upgraded to HDV like everyone else.

Is it perfect..no.
But HDV will have a shorter shelf life than DV due to the upcoming upgrades in technology. UHD is just around the corner.
But that's a whole other topic.
Thanks again for your help.
Marc
 
Paintedsheep said:
I appreciate everyone's help. I guess I'll just have to play around with it and see if I can get an acceptable image for the competition.
Since I'm new top FCP I was hoping for someone to say "sure, you just push that button and it magically fixes dark video!" Hahahahahahahhaa
Click to expand...
Nope, no "easy button", but if you post some representative screen shots I'm sure people would tinker w/them and post back the settings they used. That would at least give you a decent place to start form.

Is it perfect..no.
But HDV will have a shorter shelf life than DV due to the upcoming upgrades in technology. UHD is just around the corner.
But that's a whole other topic.
Thanks again for your help.
Marc
Click to expand...
UHD might be around the corner in limited amounts as a acquisition format, but on the post and distribution sides we're still in the process of a very painful and expensive (for consumers, content providers, and distributors) transition from SD to HD so I don't expect we'll be transitioning from HD to UHD anytime soon. Like you said though, another topic for another day.:)


-A
 
adkimery said:
UHD might be around the corner in limited amounts as a acquisition format, but on the post and distribution sides we're still in the process of a very painful and expensive (for consumers, content providers, and distributors) transition from SD to HD so I don't expect we'll be transitioning from HD to UHD anytime soon. Like you said though, another topic for another day.:)

-A
Click to expand...

I don't know...
I'm betting that by the time the industry is 85% converted to HD...the new format will start to take over...
It's a money game.
As soon as everyone is really able to view HD content in their homes...bamn!
Next format please.
If the manufacturer says that UHD is what you need to spend your money on, everyone WILL do it. Just like everyone obeyed (or is trying to obey) when HD (HDV) came out.
I'm going to sit back and wait. The human eye can only perceive so much detail.
I'll upgrade when 3DHD comes out. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
Paintedsheep said:
I don't know...
I'm betting that by the time the industry is 85% converted to HD...the new format will start to take over...
It's a money game.
As soon as everyone is really able to view HD content in their homes...bamn!
Next format please.
Click to expand...
New delivery format in 10 years? Sure. New TV standard? I doubt it. The move from NTSC to ATSC is costing billions of dollars and just about as many headaches. NTSC is 70 some odd years old and there's a reason we've stuck w/it for so long.:thumbsup:


-A
 
adkimery said:
New delivery format in 10 years? Sure. New TV standard? I doubt it. The move from NTSC to ATSC is costing billions of dollars and just about as many headaches. NTSC is 70 some odd years old and there's a reason we've stuck w/it for so long.:thumbsup:
-A
Click to expand...
I don't care about a new tv standard...
I'm talking about Ultra HD and then whatever wil replace that...and what will replace that...
10 years? Sooner than that I'm sure. The FCC has already approved UHD.
It's just a matter of time...short time.
Look how insane people were (are) about the Red One camera. Everyone wants 4k res and they want it now!
Nobody seems to care that they can't do a damn thing with 4k res footage lol!
 
Paintedsheep said:
I don't care about a new tv standard...
I'm talking about Ultra HD and then whatever wil replace that...and what will replace that...
10 years? Sooner than that I'm sure. The FCC has already approved UHD.
It's just a matter of time...short time.
Look how insane people were (are) about the Red One camera. Everyone wants 4k res and they want it now!
Click to expand...
But if you want to watch UHD DVDs and UHD TV channels on your UHD TV set then there needs to be a new TV standard that supports UHD. Everyone will need new UHD TVs. Post production facilities, b'casters, cable companies etc., will all need new infrastructure that supports UHD. Like I said, the switch from NTSC to ATSC has been going on for years, will keep going on for years, and will cost billions of dollars. We aren't going to repeat this process again any time soon.

Nobody seems to care that they can't do a damn thing with 4k res footage lol!
Click to expand...
They'll do the same thing that people who shoot film have been doing for decades.


-A
 
adkimery said:
But if you want to watch UHD DVDs and UHD TV channels on your UHD TV set then there needs to be a new TV standard that supports UHD. Everyone will need new UHD TVs. Post production facilities, b'casters, cable companies etc., will all need new infrastructure that supports UHD. Like I said, the switch from NTSC to ATSC has been going on for years, will keep going on for years, and will cost billions of dollars. We aren't going to repeat this process again any time soon.


They'll do the same thing that people who shoot film have been doing for decades.


-A
Click to expand...

ATSC and NTSC refer to OTA (over the air) broadcasting...It has nothing to do with your DVD player or Satellite or Cable...
You can view programs finished in HD (or UHD when it comes out) on the appropriate tv regardless of ATSC or NTSC.
And I don't know that ATSC won't support UHD...it's digital...just more info than HD.
Look at the myriad changes that took place in all broadcasting mediums that were supported by the NTSC system...hundreds of "improvements"...
What makes you think that trend won't continue with ATSC?
HD is already on it's way out...you just don't know it yet.
UHD is on the way...no matter how much everyone spent on the upgrade to HD.
And when that happens I still won't upgrade.
They improve things to make more money...not because there was a necessity to change.
UHD has 16X the res of HD...that's just stupid. But EVERYONE will buy into it.
 
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