Tricky sound scenario, any advice appreciated.

R

ROne

Well-known member
Scenario:

10 people sat on chairs arranged in a circle facing each other in the middle of a fairly large room. Each person in turn telling a story to the others (approx 5 minutes each) A large number of other people sat in a wider circle around the edges of the room (audience - no participation)

Camera moving around the edge on tripod (in the audience) discreetly and as appropriate to capture the stories which are of a sensitive nature. The emphasis is on keeping well back and being as unobtrusive as possible so as not to make the subjects overly aware they are being filmed (they are nervous enough as it is speaking to the group).

Dilemma - how to effectively capture sound?

Solutions and respective problems

1) Radio mic all 10 subjects - other than the logistical problems of fitting and managing 10 open radio mics, the subjects are ladies and invariably will be wearing outfits that are not easy to conceal radio pacs etc. It is not crucial that the transmitters/lapels are not visible but they need to be not cumbersome if there is any possibility of them being able to relax and forget they are wearing a mic! From experience I have had to stick transmitters to ladies (ahem!) underwear due to dresses having no pockets/belts etc to attach to. Perks of the job aside this is not ideal in this scenario as the time available for fitting will be quite limited!

2) Boom - Obvious answer and not an issue based on the camera shot being a tight head and shoulders but again the issue is more down to the need for discretion. They are not going to feel comfortable with a huge sausage floating above their heads.

3) Rifle mic / parabolic reflector? alongside camera. This would be the most ideal but unsure as to how effective it would be as I have no working knowledge of these and the subjects will be some distance away (25ft approx) and are not likely to be projecting their voices "theatrically". Also if it is a warm day the room is likely to have aircon so there will be some ambient noise - just to make it even easier.

4) Boundary mics/Celing mics dangling overhead - Bit of a bugger to set up as the room is quite big with highish ceilings and cable runs would be awkward.

5) Miracle solution that I may have missed - suggestions welcome!


6) Remind me why do we do these things?

Many thanks
Thanks.
 
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get over the "discomfort" factor. the boom is the way to go, and a small hyper or super cardioid isnt going to freak people out more than a camera in the room.
 
I agree, use the boom.

I had a similar situation with 18 people in a U shaped table config along with a moderator. I placed a lav on the moderator and used the boom for each person.
Each person had a story to tell and they were 15 to 45 minutes each.
It was tough, but rewarding. The producer complemented me on the quality sound of the boom and the smooth transition from one person to the next.
It case you are asking, my 18 person panel was also a sensitive nature. They were discussing The Holocaust.
 
You both make valid and logical points guys, I may have to go to the client and push the boom set-up if there is no other alternative.

Thanks.
 
timapter said:
get over the "discomfort" factor. the boom is the way to go, and a small hyper or super cardioid isnt going to freak people out more than a camera in the room.
Click to expand...
I would suggest too that the boom person use a monopod support for the boom so he/she can keep it steady during those longer passages. I just got one that is very light, has a y shaped piece on the top for the pole to sit on, and goes up high enough to keep the pole out of the shot. Also easily adjustable with one hand. Its a shooter's/support/camera monopod . I got it at Walmart for $19.00. If you're mixing and booming at the same time its a great tool. An extra bonus would be you can stay back with a longer extension of the boom so the boomer's presence isn't quite as noticeable.
Wired or wireless lavs would give you good sound too if you had a skilled person mixing or an automatic mic mixer. You are talking a lot more expense and it takes a fair amount of time to get everyone rigged up. Boundary mics would sound too open and roomy and I've used parabolic mics at pro sporting events and they would sound somewhat thin in the type of scenario you describe. They are better suited for sports sound effects. If the air conditioning is noisy make sure your boom mic is a good one and get in good and close. If they change their mind about the framing and flow of the discussion ie: wider shots and free flowing then the lavs with an auto mixer would be more effective.

Bernie
 
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I would say that if you go with multiple mics, record to something like Boom Recorder so you can keep the mics discrete. I would also send a mix to the camera. Boundary or podium mics would seem to also be an option IF you use enough of them. THe "mix" unless you have someone actively mixing will probably sound awful because of all the open mics but in post when you kill the unused portions of the tracks it should come out pretty clean.
 
I WOULD CHOOSE OPTION 1... OPTION 2 - ALTHOUGH A GOOD ONE, DISCRETION IS THE KEY. GETTING PEOPLE TO TALK OPENLY TO STRANGERS AND WITH PEOPLE WATCHING, AND BEING TAPED CAN MAKE THESE UNPROFESSIONAL TALENTS UNCOMFORTABLE TO SEEING A BOOM POLE BEING SWUNG THEIR WAY.(PUTTING THEM ON THE SPOT , SO TO SPEAK)
FOR EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONALS, LIKE DOCTORS , LAWYERS OR PEOPLE USED TO PUBLIC SPEAKING, I WOULD STRONGLY CONSIDER OPTION 2 WHILE STILL ADDING ANOTHER BOOM POLE TO COVER THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CIRCLE (YES, 2 BOOM POLE OP'S) -
I realize that this 2nd boom pole op would make the art of discretion even more conspicuous however. This does make it tricky for camera angles as well, while you attempt to keep your op's out of frame. Each op should know to move their body out of frame near your speaker. I would also add two other cameras, or a least one additional camera. This would help cover the camera being picked up and moved for a better shot of the talking head.
Have talent show up earlier to have their mics attached in time to give everything a "One more time" test . Rent the mics and receivers and mixer, and I would still consider using at least one very tight patterned shotgun mic on camera or hung from above the circle.

Rifle mics are used very efficiently at presidential press conferences..But when talent is in a circle, you'll need at least two. Not sure who rents them, I have not personally used one before.
Man, was I ramblin on this one...If you have the budget, mic everyone, if not use two booms and mic on camera like I mentioned above. A second or third camera would really make this look professional.
Good luck.
 
Thanks everyone, plenty of food for thought. We do have the budget so not a problem in that department.
 
Option 1 is the optimum for unobtrusive good sound. There is only one open mic at a time (pad the rest of them) and the lav can be placed out of the way of crossed arms. The participants will forget they have one on.

Option 2, albeit there is a person hovering with a boom pole, is the easiest and should yield good sound. If the participants can get used to the audience and the camera, then the boom operator should not be a problem.

There is always the old "Campfire" Option. Use a hand mic and pass it around. Of course you'll need to show the participants how to use a hand mic up front and remind them not to yell or hold it too close.
 
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I've found that people tend to get more comfortable with the mic as time goes on. If they've agreed to do this forum (or whatever it is) in the first place, they'll get over the cameras, the people watching, and oh yes, the mic they forgot they were wearing. Everyone's given good advice: I just wanted to add that I think they'll end up forgetting they're even on mic as they get more comfortable.
 
Go with a good omnidirectional mic. Everything around will be recorded equally with louder noises sounding more present. Wherever the camera is pointing, move the omnidirectional microphone to that person. What you get is an equal balance of sound from other people when the mic is close to a person speaking. No matter what microphone you use, you still need to follow the camera.
 
just to clarify something said back earlier in this thread to avoid confusion - a rifle mic IS a shotgun mic dude. see the similarity in naming? ;-)
 
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