used ND filter but didn't want to

I

IndyUser500

Member
Hi,

I took some outside shots with the DVX-100B and even though the sun was behind me and I was at f16 I had a hard time setting the white balance, it would keep saying LEVEL OVER.

So I was finally able to do it by applying the ND filter switch to 1/8 and then blocking the sun glare somewhat with my shadow to set the white balance.

I thought it was worth it because I got, in my opinion really good image quality with nice colors.

Has anone else had this problem and were able to get a purer image without using the ND filter when the camera was just flooded with light?

Or can you put on the ND filter then set the white balance and then take off the ND filter and it doesn't make a difference?

note, I had a uv filter on the lens
 
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I guess I don't understand your aversion to using the ND filter for proper exposure. Maybe I'm reading something wrong but it sounds like you really don't want to use the ND. ND is your friend.
 
When I shoot 24pA, shutter at 1/60, my ND filter is ALWAYS on at 1/8. Especially in the daylight. (From morning to evening) My iris is around 4.8-5.6 also.

Sometimes I'm at 1/64 ND..
 
What about low light Robbie?


edit - and to the original poster, an ND filter will not change the color at all in your image.
 
fevercity said:
I guess I don't understand your aversion to using the ND filter for proper exposure.
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I thought that it might be bad to use because well I thought it might be like the gain which causes some quality loss from the electronic signal.

Hmm good to know thanks for sharing your experience :)

"ND is your friend, ND is your friend I'll remember that one thanks :)
 
I just keep my iris open all the time, and adjust the rest with nd and shutter speed. I love the look of high shutter speed. I still don't know why people fear 24p flicker, real film flickers too. ex. whenever they are ouside on CSI they are shooting super high shutter, it looks badass.
 
used nd filter but didnt want to

used nd filter but didnt want to

renegadewill said:
I just keep my iris open all the time, and adjust the rest with nd and shutter speed. I love the look of high shutter speed. I still don't know why people fear 24p flicker, real film flickers too. ex. whenever they are ouside on CSI they are shooting super high shutter, it looks badass.
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i like that look aswell ive always wondered how they got it. between what ranges of shutter speed do you use? with your iris open all the the time is that day or nite in or out? while dark what shutter do you use if at all?
 
renegadewill said:
I just keep my iris open all the time, and adjust the rest with nd and shutter speed. I love the look of high shutter speed. I still don't know why people fear 24p flicker, real film flickers too. ex. whenever they are ouside on CSI they are shooting super high shutter, it looks badass.
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James Longley {"Iraq in Fragments"} agrees w/ your shutter speed approach:

For rendering detail and texture, Longley found the DVX100 responded best to wide-open apertures. Sometimes he also increased the shutter speed to help capture detail, as in the crowd scenes and dust storms in chapter two. “I ran the gamut from normal to 1/500. Sometimes I was making those decisions because of exposure. The more important thing was keeping the iris wide open. I would use ND filters to darken the scene and then open up the iris. But if it was still too bright, I might increase the shutter speed in order to get the correct exposure with the iris wide open.
 
I have turned my shutter off, but that was just for shooting cityscapes on a tripod at night. I will use all the way from 1/1000 to off. I just try to get as shallow a depth of field as I can with the stock lens. look at this
stockdvxdepth.jpg


lighting isn't great, but it's pretty shallow for the stock dvx lens

or even this one

bloodyfacejoe.jpg


and yes that is a light blood splatter on his face.
 
fevercity said:
James Longley {"Iraq in Fragments"} agrees w/ your shutter speed approach:

For rendering detail and texture, Longley found the DVX100 responded best to wide-open apertures. Sometimes he also increased the shutter speed to help capture detail, as in the crowd scenes and dust storms in chapter two. “I ran the gamut from normal to 1/500. Sometimes I was making those decisions because of exposure. The more important thing was keeping the iris wide open. I would use ND filters to darken the scene and then open up the iris. But if it was still too bright, I might increase the shutter speed in order to get the correct exposure with the iris wide open.
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I have to take issue with his comments. I think what he says is a faulty conclusion.

Typically we call using shutter speed to control expsoure a "rookie mistake." It may have made for a very interesting look throughout his film. I haven't seen it yet, but perhaps it is interesting to have such a varied mix of shutter speed throughout. Interestingly, high shutter speeds are often used on war films or for combat scenes, so perhaps he unintentionally fell into a look that in cinematic language was somewhat of a fit for his material. Regardless of the outcome, I call it a mistake.

As for his conclusion, it is a fact that there is a sweet spot of the lens, and it resolves detail best between F4-F8. At full wide iris, there is a drop-off in resolved detail through the lens. If anything he perceived that it had more detail because he was raising the shutter speed. High shutters reduce motion blur, and this may be perceived as clearer- or sharper-looking images, but it's two different things, really.

I opt for a wide iris as much as possible myself, to achieve shallower dpeth of field, and I know I'm taking a slight resolution hit because of it, but it's worth it to me. I use ND to fine tune the exposure, though, not shutter speed.

Raising shutter speed produces a different look, and I would highly disagree that it's a good standard operating procedure for controlling the exposure. The real solution is to have screw-on ND filters of various strengths to fine tune exposure without changing the shutter. Shutter is just a shortcut.

I'm not against high shutters, I've used them from time to time for certain scenes in certain films that called for the look.
 
Joshua Provost said:
Raising shutter speed produces a different look, and I would highly disagree that it's a good standard operating procedure for controlling the exposure. The real solution is to have screw-on ND filters of various strengths to fine tune exposure without changing the shutter. Shutter is just a shortcut.

I'm not against high shutters, I've used them from time to time for certain scenes in certain films that called for the look.
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I agree, you'll never get that motion look you want if you use the shutter to control the exposure instead of using it for the look, so since setting a higher shutter speed Does reduce exposure I'm seeing that one should set it first (if one wanted to use a high shutter speed for a particular motion look) since they would be using the high shutter anyway and Then control the exposure with the iris & ND filters.

Are the screw on ND filters better quality than the ND switch on the camera?
 
IndyUser500 said:
Are the screw on ND filters better quality than the ND switch on the camera?
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I'm actually not in love with the ND filters in the camera, but I use them all the time. The best thing about them is they can't get dirty, since they are built-in.

The ND in the camera only let's you cut 3 stop (1/8) or 6 stop (1/64). If you can swing it, it's nice to have a 1 stop (ND.3) and 2 stop (ND.6) screw-on filter around as well, to combine with the built-in ND for more precise control. Then, you could conceivably go anywhere from 1-9 stops with 1 stop precision, using the filters in various combinations.

All of my filters are B&W.
 
Joshua Provost said:
Typically we call using shutter speed to control expsoure a "rookie mistake." It may have made for a very interesting look throughout his film. I haven't seen it yet, but perhaps it is interesting to have such a varied mix of shutter speed throughout. Interestingly, high shutter speeds are often used on war films or for combat scenes, so perhaps he unintentionally fell into a look that in cinematic language was somewhat of a fit for his material. Regardless of the outcome, I call it a mistake.
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Generally, it is a mistake and draws attention to itself. I don't personally subscribe to the shutter-speed approach either but it does make for a 'look' in his film. It's definitely something he was going for. I mean - you know what it looks like. Driving around Iraq shooting out of a truck and flags waving in the breeze is pretty trippy in this instance. You gotta see it in context - it is cinematic. I actually didn't like the film for a slew of other reasons but that's a whole other thread!
 
are polizers and black pro mist considered nd filters? i can never keep them straight but the 1/8 filter allows more lite in correct?
 
A ND filter is just that - a ND filter (neutral density). It shouldn't shift the color in any way.

Some filters do lessen light and this can be measured in stops. I have a warming circular polarizer that accounts for something like a 1/2 stop loss-in-light meaning you have to 'open up' a 1/2 stop on the iris to compensate for proper exposure.

I don't know about pro mists and that's a great question. I usually use a 1/2 black pro mist almost all the time. Since polarizers are cutting down on reflective light, they are reducing exposure to a certain degree. Just open up the iris with zebras on and spin the polarizer and watch what it does. That is, of course, if it's a circular polarizer. It if it's linear then look through the viewfinder while you hold the filter in front and then take it away, noting the difference.
 
my setting's were really stupid, I just got the cam and it was like +15
it only looks decent if it is really well lit
 
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