Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
As stated by others, it is not just for making the setup shorter- it is for much more then that. (See the other posts).
$4500 for the Letus Ulitmate or $10,000 for the P&S Mini35 .... that is a better comparison.
BIG news from Letus!
- Thread starter disjecta
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As stated by others, it is not just for making the setup shorter- it is for much more then that. (See the other posts).
$4500 for the Letus Ulitmate or $10,000 for the P&S Mini35 .... that is a better comparison.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
If you really want to talk about a strange planet then check this out:
HPX500 body: $8000
P&S Pro35: $27,000
RED Zoom Lens: $6500
Or
RED One: $17,500
RED Zoom Lense: $6500
Or
HVX200 / HPX170: $5000
P&S Mini35: $10,000
RED Zoom Lens: $6500
Or
HPX170: $5000
Letus Ultimate: $4500
RED Zoom Lens: $6500
Or
Scarlet: $3000
Letus Ultimate: $4500
RED Zoom Lens: $6500
(I just chose one standard PL mount lens, since the Pro35 only does PL mount lenses, and I wanted roughly the same setup for everything.) I realize that most people on the lower end budgets will be using nikon mounts, but as seen in perspective, with the other options out there, the $4500 of the Ultimate is not that unreasonable when seen in comparison. (I realize may not make it easier to afford for lower budgets.)
Evangelos Achillopoulos
Well-known member
I don’t won’t to be looked as the bad guy, but on the video from freshDV:
http://freshdv.dreamhosters.com/video/nab08/freshdv_nab08_letus.mov
Hain said for the B4 mount that “he likes” the 4500$ number so B4 plus Ultimate is 9K$ ….or 6400$ for extreme with B4…
http://freshdv.dreamhosters.com/video/nab08/freshdv_nab08_letus.mov
Hain said for the B4 mount that “he likes” the 4500$ number so B4 plus Ultimate is 9K$ ….or 6400$ for extreme with B4…
HPX500 sounds really good. Trust me, I dream about it nightly. But, the cost difference between the 170 and 500 is truly night and day. I thin the same as you: raise the rental rates, get the money back. But, in reality most people (at least around this area) are happy with the rental rate I have.
So, to offset lighting costs and efficiency, one half-stop faster camera with less noise and more dynamic range that's still within the cost range and STILL delivering the image that everyone loves to pay for seems like the best bet for ownership.
Take into account that Barry reported about a 500 ISO rating for the 170. Ultimate (I know you're gonna get one too, hehe) brings that rating back down to 320, or very close to it. Now, lighting for a naked HVX is not hard at all. 320 ISO is a very nice place to be at and although we would all love to be a little faster, I think with the best glass and the best adapter-- the Letus Ultimate-- you're pretty much golden and you can still net the clients that you've been having without having to charge them much more if anymore at all.
Any larger jobs? I think that's where rentals come in. Shooting RED for larger projects is definitely nice.
This could all change when Scarlet is released... I just can't justify sitting around and waiting for it m'self. Or, even dreaming about it any longer although the concept is pretty darn enticing.
What's wrong with 4500 for the B4 Mount? It's been in development for quite some time, custom made with care and has a lot of positive factors within it's build including iris control and back focus adjustments.
Admittedly, we haven't seen any images from the Ultimate just yet, but it sounds like the closest thing you could get to an Ultimate + Relay setup would be the P+S Mini adapter that's got the built-in relay, and I think that one costs twice as much.
Evangelos Achillopoulos
Well-known member
Letus and RED are partners?
Letus and RED are partners?
Wrong? Nothing is wrong, just assisting on the math…
The adaptor for HPX500 costs 9.000$ and the camera 8.000$... Ok, you can have, the LE with the B4 for 6.500$...
Hmm... HPX500 is 8K$ plus 9K$ B4/LU = 17000$
But, for 17500$ you can buy a RED ONE…
I thing Letus is working for Jim…
Letus and RED are partners?
Wrong? Nothing is wrong, just assisting on the math…
The adaptor for HPX500 costs 9.000$ and the camera 8.000$... Ok, you can have, the LE with the B4 for 6.500$...
Hmm... HPX500 is 8K$ plus 9K$ B4/LU = 17000$
But, for 17500$ you can buy a RED ONE…
I thing Letus is working for Jim…
You can buy a RED ONE Body for 17,500. You can't shoot with a RED ONE at 17,500. The comparison is moot.
You can't even shoot with that HPX500 setup at 17,000. You still need a good 2k in accessories to shoot with that, if not 3k. Lowest price you could spend on a RED ONE (w/Nikon mount) and just SQUEEZE by is 25k - 27k. Lowest on an HPX500 is nosing 20k. That's still a 5 grand difference.
I haven't seen another B4 mount out that's offering the kind of quality that Letus is offering aside from P+S which I'm not as familiar with. Since they're competing with P+S, I think they've probably hit the mark and burned it at the same time.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
Yeah, lighting for 320 would be a nice increase from 200- no doubt! As for getting the Ulitmate- you can bet I'm going to pick one up for sure.
I really haven't had any requests for the RED from my clients to be honest. Right now with the work flow issues, the production companies I work for need a workflow they are familiar and comfortable with, and they have only recently (In the last 1 - 2 years) jumped on board to the P2 workflow. Also, a lot of my clients have tight deadlines and need to show their clients rough edits without the hassle of transcoding, and grading everything, so that has made them weary of using the RED as well. I'm sure this will change at some point, but for now they are wanting a larger camera that is P2 based. I think some of it comes down to making sure that their clients "see" what they are paying for when they look at the camera package. So I have been renting the HPX for those projects.
Yeah, I do not want to wait around either. Since I'm already renting the gear I need for the projects, I'm just trying to figure out if I should upgrade my camera package now, or wait for the scarlet- as the only real benefit I would be getting is immediate access to a better camera for my own personal projects..... So much to consider....
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
The P+S Mini35 costs around $10,000 and is made for fixed lens cameras like the HVX, not for relay cameras.
The P+S Pro35 costs around $27,000 and is made for B4 mount cameras as it has the relay lens.
So the Ultimate + Relay at $9k is 1/3 of the price, and performs even better then the P+S.
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
Bingo!
I've used the P+S with a Varicam, and my biggest gripe was that the GG started to show up when we were shooting in 60P. It is not very noticeable on the small screen, but when it was projected, it was very noticeable. But the Ultimate once it is in its final production model is aiming to be able to shoot up to 200P without the GG showing up.
Evangelos Achillopoulos
Well-known member
I don’t won’t to argue about that, but with 21500 you can shoot also with RED… In 4K…
You sound very excited…have you seen a single frame in high resolution from the relay or the ultimate to have such a solid opinion? If yes where?
I’m trying to understand (as a businessman that’s running a rental house) where is the exciting news?
You sound very excited…have you seen a single frame in high resolution from the relay or the ultimate to have such a solid opinion? If yes where?
I’m trying to understand (as a businessman that’s running a rental house) where is the exciting news?
Evangelos Achillopoulos
Well-known member
Ryan, I have tested my Varicam extensively, with Brevis35/GG.relay B4 mount (with my own GG) and haven’t seen any problem… and that’s less than 5K$ cost in total…
In terms of rentals I think people would be excited, no? The P&S Technic adapter has dominated the rental scene in America for awhile now. Now Letus is putting out an adapter that is supposedly better and cheaper. And like Ryan said not everyone wants to use the Red cam right now, they'd rather work within established workflows like DVCPROHD and DVCAM.
Please, show me where you can shoot RED ONE without PROBLEMS for 21,5.
I do understand that you're actually another relay manufacturer, though.
Evangelos Achillopoulos
Well-known member
Now that the cat is out with Letus, and me a bit more closer to understand the market (client base requests)
Kholi, first am a user, very angry for years, stacked with Pro35, and then a manufacture…
RED ONE is shooting as well as 500 does (or better…) and you have to know that am NOT a RED fun boy at all! Vice versa, am chasing Graeme and Jim for months regarding many aspects of their camera. But I have to admit that’s there, and its working.
I’m just reading 20 pages, and trying to understand what are you thinking regarding to, what is expensive and what is cost effective…
Kholi, first am a user, very angry for years, stacked with Pro35, and then a manufacture…
RED ONE is shooting as well as 500 does (or better…) and you have to know that am NOT a RED fun boy at all! Vice versa, am chasing Graeme and Jim for months regarding many aspects of their camera. But I have to admit that’s there, and its working.
I’m just reading 20 pages, and trying to understand what are you thinking regarding to, what is expensive and what is cost effective…
Ryan E. Walters
Well-known member
That is awesome news, and good to hear. When I was doing my testing with the Varicam / P+S Pro35 last summer, the GG showing up in 60P was an issue- Especially outdoors where we had to use ND's and stop down quite a bit.
Cost effective, to me, means it works how it should at the price it costs. The Letus relay looks like it's basically built as a high quality lens with everything a lens would have (macro lens in this case I believe). So instead of just a tube between the adapter and camera, you have more options to tweak and adjust your image.
To tell you guys the truth, i sent out a big email to all my contacts announcing a RED camera is available in my line up. 2 months went by.... i can hear crickets. Noone wants RED. Not at this stage in the game.
Right now, Big production companies are even staying away from, Varicam/F900.
Im getting bigger and bigger jobs on HVX200. They want ot hire a small camera they dont need a crew of 4 to operate the right way. (like a RED, just pretend its a film camera, thats really what its like)
Thye can get DVCproHD100 1080P, they can edit right now, for around 800$ a day out the door, with 35mm DOF.
Most of these ads are going on SD tv, why would they spend more.?
The HPX500 is perfect. its comfortable, very sensitive, and produces a great image. ... still only needs 1 guy to operate. Throw on an Ultimate, which if it lives up, i WILL purchase along with a Relay and HPX500. Sigh my SG is sad......
Right now, Big production companies are even staying away from, Varicam/F900.
Im getting bigger and bigger jobs on HVX200. They want ot hire a small camera they dont need a crew of 4 to operate the right way. (like a RED, just pretend its a film camera, thats really what its like)
Thye can get DVCproHD100 1080P, they can edit right now, for around 800$ a day out the door, with 35mm DOF.
Most of these ads are going on SD tv, why would they spend more.?
The HPX500 is perfect. its comfortable, very sensitive, and produces a great image. ... still only needs 1 guy to operate. Throw on an Ultimate, which if it lives up, i WILL purchase along with a Relay and HPX500. Sigh my SG is sad......
This is exactly why I'm not waiting on a Scarlet. The HPX170 is a VERY nice upgrade from the HVX200 and I can still pull the SAME clientele that I did before. Those same people will be much more comfortable with working on an HPX500 as well.
However, there are a lot of people in this region wanting to shoot RED ONE. The thing is, and this isn't a secret, the rates are getting lower every time I check in with someone. The best packages are going for much less than you would expect, and even better at weekly rates. The camera needs at LEAST two people to operate, ideally three (CO, 1st AC, DIT).
On spending more for a larger camera, there are benefits that only a Cinematographer might appreciate. One being the massive amount of latitude in RED footages, the other being resolution of course. But I'm sure everyone already knows that.
Companies like Indie Rentails are GIVING them away on weekend rates (granted they're probably getting their equipment destroyed as well).
I love the camera, Matty G turned me into a RED convert for sure and I can't wait for the next RED ONE project, it still isn't a universal application; The HPX500 and 170 are built-in.
I can definitly appreciate the image quality on a RED one. I would rather Shoot RED believe me..... But noone wants to pay for it.