RED NAB NEWS THREAD: Scarlet pics are up

snowleopard said:
Well, if you need it ASAP, then you'll be buying something else, because the Panasonic won't be out until probably October, and Scarlet won't be released until probably a year from now.
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Poor choice of words. I've got plenty of things to shoot with. I simply meant that once I've decided between the two I'll order as soon as they let me.

SPZ said:
1st- Its very tempting on paper but not a World apart from the EX 3, for example. If anyone saw the Adam Witt "unfair comparison of the Red One, F23, and the EX-1" (his words!), the Red One was as sharp as an EX-1 from the stills posted (Adam stated a miscalibration on the RED, but sincerely, I don't buy it). We know how RED records "4k", and the F23, a 1920x1080 camera, smoked it in lines of resolution.
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Don't forget that the F23 has internal sharpening in the camera and the RED has ZERO in-camera sharpening. You can push sharpening pretty far in post with RED RAW, I was impressed at any rate. I've no experience with the F23 or EX1, and I don't know that the internal sharpening accounts for the entire difference, but I love the fact that RED gives me the option. There's no "remove sharpening" on the F23 or EX1.
 
Well, my understanding with the F23 is that a large part of it's appeal is that it has an exposure of about 11-12 stops, compared to many other cameras 7-8, and the Red's 8-9. However, I haven't run any tests, and haven't even seen an F23 with my own eyes. I could be regurgitating false information that seemed legit when I read it.

Ever watch Star Wars (IV, V & VI) in HD? (There are 1080p broadcast captures floating around). Whatever Lucas used to shoot those had horrible corner softness and CA and yet they are still beautiful movies(especially the remastered). If you can do that with a crappy cine lens, why should we care about the minute differences between still and cine lenses anyway?
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Boy, I'm in 1000% agreement here! We've long ago reached "good enough" in quality of these cameras. Way long ago. With skill, you could make a great looking product on the HVX, or even the $3,000 Canon A1, or a used DVX100 if DVD (SD) is your final output!
 
kenn michael said:
Yep, if you create a look in camera (using the parameters in the 'VIDEO' menu - contrast, brightness, saturation, etc...) it will come up with those changes in RedAlert and even RedCine. The proxies will be affected to look like your LCD looked when you shot it... and you can always change it back to flat.

Then, you can save those looks on the SD card to reload quickly in the field without having to fiddle thru menus.
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Kenn thanks for the information! You got a PM coming.
 
davide said:
I'm a little dissappointed that it's a fixed lens, but that thing still looks awesome. Cramming 3k into a 2/3 chip though has got to make for a pretty dense pixel count. Is that about the same density as the HV20?
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The HV20 is 3 million pixels on a 1/2.7" chip. Scarlet would be about 5 million pixels on a 2/3" chip. So the actual density on the Scarlet should be much lower, per square mm, than the density on the HV20. Ballpark math would be that you have 67% more pixels on 4x as much surface area, so the pixels on the Scarlet should be noticeably bigger than those on the HV20.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Realistically - with a 3K single sensor what are we looking at in terms of final resolution?
Would it be fair to say 2K?
(assuming it's a bayer filter)
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It should be easily fair to say 2K. Graeme's currently quoting a figure of about 78% total final resolution. That should mean, if the Scarlet is comparable to the One in this manner, that you're getting as much as 3072*.78 = about 2.4K of total res. So let's be conservative and round it down all the way to 2K. That's better than 1080P res. None too shabby!
 
TheMusician said:
And if you are into indie film or feature film, then you are more than willing to work with RAW, in fact, it is essential.
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Really? Seems like a whole lot of films have been done without going to that "essential" step.

Working with Raw is amazing. But it's also astonishingly slow. It's probably a good thing that the Scarlet is a year away, because that'll let the tools catch up (quad-core laptops, octo-core desktops). I feel the same way about the HMC150: AVC-HD isn't quite ready for prime production usage yet, but maybe in the next six or 7 months the companies will all get their act together and make it a reality.

Download some R3D's and play with the raw footage in redcine. It's not a walk in the park.

In fact, I would venture to say that they are now the underdogs in the feature/indie film market with REDs new releases.
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Releases? or announcements? There's only one Red product on the market, and it's still largely in alpha state. Alpha = first working prototypes, beta = "we think we're done, go check for bugs". Red's still adding massive new updates, so it's still in what I'd consider alpha. Maybe it'll go into beta after build 16 is released.

Scarlet has been announced. It's also said that there's a year before we'll see any product, and that every specification is subject to change and that you should, in fact, "count" on things changing.

Nobody's more jazzed about Scarlet than I am, I'm all over this like Louie Anderson at the Circus Circus buffet. But let's not get too premature. When I put down my deposit for a Red One, it was a "4K/2K/1080P/720P camera with 4K @ 60fps uncompressed output through a fiber channel port." That's not exactly what ended up shipping; there's no 1080P, no 720P, and no 4K at 60fps, and no fiber channel port and no uncompressed output. But it's also got 3K mode and the 2K mode goes to 120fps. Things change.

The current Scarlet announcement is not a "release", and it's nothing for anyone to get too distracted by. What counts is what actually gets released, and when. I very much look forward to seeing how this all turns out. The Scarlet could be the ultimate indie film cam, but I'm more concerned with workflow right now.

But I definitely don't want any heated arguements, I am just thrilled at NAB this year. Sony has some incredible releases, Panasonic has some incredible releases, and so does RED. And this benefits us all.[/quote]
 
For everyone that didn't want a lens:

I was under the impression that a 2/3" chip will create a deeper DOF than a 35mm chip. This is mostly the reason people buy 35mm adapters--to create a more shallow depth of field for their cameras with smaller sensors. Why would you want a 2/3" camera without glass? Adding your own lens isn't going to create the depth you want because of the smaller chip size. You'd still need the adapter.

The Scarlet setup just has a bonus lens for people that like to do quick, run and gun shooting without all the extras thrown in front of the lens and weighing down the camera. Granted it's not removable, but why should it be when you've got to use an adapter anyway?

Am I understanding how this stuff properly works, or am I completely wrong here?
 
dust'n the callipygous said:
For everyone that didn't want a lens:

I was under the impression that a 2/3" chip will create a deeper DOF than a 35mm chip. This is mostly the reason people buy 35mm adapters--to create a more shallow depth of field for their cameras with smaller sensors. Why would you want a 2/3" camera without glass? Adding your own lens isn't going to create the depth you want because of the smaller chip size. You'd still need the adapter.

The Scarlet setup just has a bonus lens for people that like to do quick, run and gun shooting without all the extras thrown in front of the lens and weighing down the camera. Granted it's not removable, but why should it be when you've got to use an adapter anyway?

Am I understanding how this stuff properly works, or am I completely wrong here?
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You're right but people just want a cheaper RED 1 with removeable lenses. They could care less about the form factor. However, its true that a 2/3" sensor will still be awkward to use as a removeable lens system since those lenses will be made for 35mm and you'll get still massive focal length multiplication.

Basically, people wanted a cheaper RED with removeable lenses and they didn't get it but what they did get isn't that bad either.
 
S'exactly what I said. RAW is no joke. It's not the point-and-shoot everyone's used to. But, I guess you gotta play with it to see that.

I do like the fact that you can apply the VIDEO look to the footage, though. I'm glad Kenn told me that I could do that!
 
If the Scarlet comes out as good as it sounds on paper, this will be the standard indie camera.

I figure Hollywood is trying to sell 3d as the next big thing for movies. I, however, don't believe the Hype. As a person that needs glasses to see clearly, 3d glasses or any type of 3d as never worked well for me, as I'm sure it hasn't for many others with vision problems.

Why do I say this? Filmmaking Technology for the digital age as become cheaper and cheaper, and improving in performance in an incredible pace. It feels to me they are phasing out conventional filmmaking technology assured that the future is going to new forms of entertainment. I'm glad this is happening!


Why? Because I believe conventional cinema is here to stay. Above all, its about storytelling. A movie like "Once", for example, shot in HDV (or mini-dv?) is a success regarless of any time because its brilliant cinema- simple, touching storytelling, excelent music and performances.

As an independent filmmaker I'm happy the barriers are being broken!

Now I just need some dinamic range and low light performance numbers, and if they are at the HPX500 ballpark, than here it is: the standard tool for Indie filmmaking!
 
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SPZ - I agree with you completely on storytelling, and how any of these cameras will perform fine in the hands of the right person. It's a shame so many think they need something like Red One (or the F23 for that matter) in order to make something of quality.

"If Scarlet..." "When Scarlet..." Over and over I hear that. And so few are willing to wait before passing judgment it seems.

Barry - Thanks for the straight up comment on Red One in alpha and the long wait for Scarlet and it's unknowns. I grow wary of making any critical comments about Red for being attacked by the hoards of Red apologists and fans. Unfortunately it will not take long for the Red people, if employed by Red or not, to continually tell us about how great Scarlet will be, quoting numbers and specs from Red and it's internal tests provided by tests themselves, long before the camera ever comes close to actual release and objective testing.

Meanwhile, the HVX200 and HPX500 continue to work great, and my guess is that sometime this summer or fall, these new Panasonic cameras will be released, and very likely work fine and completely as advertised. Not in alpha state, not in beta state, not with parts or technology that is so proprietary (Mysterium) no external objective data or reports exist on it. but reliably working 100%.

And no, I'm not an HVX or HPX owner, nor an employee of Panasonic.
 
I was blown away by the 2 new Varicams, and will most likely be getting one of them when they come out.

It is a proven, reliable workflow form a company that listens to its customers.
 
There is almost a war going on over in the RED Forum.
Poeple complaining about fixed lens, ugly body andwhatnot.

Most of them are not getting the point and Jim Jannard seems to be pretty pissed.

How dumb is it to ask for a Nikon mount on Scarlet?

What would you shoot wide with? There are NO Nikon lenses designed for a 2/3" sensor.

What are you thinking?

Jim
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I think the Scarlet will be a revolution (once on the market).

3k@3k RAW (that is clean 2k out if a Bayer sensor) is great.
2/3 sensor in this price class allone is unbelivable.

It is the first digital 16mm film camera and I don´t give a damn about the fixed lens - if it is good (and I bet it rocks) why would I want to change it for a Nikon?

Pros (at least for me):
It gives me propper DOF without adapter
RAW data to play with (I know it´s not that easy)
full manual controll
clean 2k resolution

what else can you ask for 3k?

....umm I would rather like to record on harddisk than on cards.

If they keep the price I´m in.

Frank
 
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