Capture and Export settings

longshanks

longshanks

Well-known member
Hi everyone, I'm new to the DVX world as I just got the 100b a couple of weeks ago. I'm having some difficulty choosing the right capture settings in FCP 6 and there seems to be a loss of quality. It didn't work until I chose an advanced pulldown of 2:3:3:2 but I believe that option is for 24p Advanced, not just 24p which i shot in. As far as the manual told me, 24p shoots in a 2:3 pulldown. Anyways, I'm not sure I understand the whole pulldown conversion except that it can work for a 60fps output. Also what is the best encoder to use for a quality export via quicktime movie?

Thanks,

longshanks
 
I think the opinion is generally if you want to shoot 24 then shoot 24pa. You can bring it into a 23.98 timeline with the advance pull down option unless you are using interlaced footage also. I'm new to the camera too, but have never shot in 24, always 24pa to edit on a 23.98 timeline. I export Quicktime Movie (not conversion) with current settings, open inm Compressor and use a H.264 codec for web stuff, if that's what you're asking.

There has been a lot of discussion on this stuff in the FCP forum here.
 
so why even have a 24p function if your only going to edit in 24pa? does final cut not support 24p? i have a very difficult time editing with the capturing process freaking out and numerous other issues. i will look in the FCP forum, thanks.
 
cinema tools

cinema tools

I recently shot a short film on the dvx100b and 24PA. I logged my footage as 29.97. Even though you shot at 24PA, it is my understanding the tape is still 29.97.

Then I changed my sequence settings to lower the frame rate to 23.98. Once my timeline was built, then exported to Cinema Tools to remove the Advance Pulldown.

This worked for me.
 
If you shoot 24pA, then you should remove the pulldown BEFORE editing and edit on a 23.98 timeline. You're asking for problems if you start 29.97 and try to conform later.
 
Capturing 24p

Capturing 24p

from what i read in the manual, 24pa has a slight image degradation compared to the normal 24p. anywho, when i did capture the footage, there was a Cinema tools preset for the advanced pulldown of 2:3:3:2. This confused me because I shot in regular 24p which has a pulldown of 2:3 but it seems to work anyways. I also did keep my sequence timeline in 23.98 and went from there but sometimes when I captured the footage, final cut forced it into 29.97. I'm not sure if this is a deck issue since it was a sony, but playing the tape before I clicked capture seemed to help. Also, playback on the external NTSC monitor showed the images to look very "shuttery", almost like a echo effect. I know this is a long post, but if anyone has any insight on this subject I'd be very grateful. :laugh:
 
If you plan on staying in a 29.97 timeline then shoot in the 24p mode and capture as normal.

If you plan on doing a film out or if there is even a chance that one may happen you MUST shoot in 24pa. This will give you a true 24 frames per second.

I always shoot in 24pa even if I am just going to DVD that way I have a 24p DVD instead of an interlaced video looking final output.

When capturing 24p you do it like any normal video. There is nothing special to do.

When capturing 24pa you need to check the advanced pulldown removal setup when building your timeline. If you do this at the front end of your project, meaning before you do anything else!, you will be fine. If you wait to try and conform after you have edited on a 29.97 timeline you are asking for trouble.
 
What I did was edited my footage on a 29.97 then made a new sequence and made that to 23.98 and just copied and pasted the 29.97 footage into the 23.98 timeline. Then I went to Cinema Tools and did the Reverse Telecine and it conform it to 23.98fps.

Trouble?
 
When I did edit I actually did select advanced pulldown for my capture settings and set the timeline to 23.98 as well. I think the stuttery images I was seeing on the external NTSC monitor was partly due to the video out settings on the computer. I'm planning on doing a documentary this fall and I would like the most flexibility when it comes to exporting to various media. (i.e. film, projection, DVD, broadcast TV, etc.) From what I read on the FCP forums on apple, 24p gives the most flexibility for different exports, not 24pA which isn't good for broadcast TV apparently.
 
It depends on what your delivery method will be for broadcast. If you are talking local broadcast then it will most likely be DVD or Beta. At that point you export your 23.98 timeline in compressor to a DV NTSC file and there you go. You will have a 29.97 DV NTSC file that you can put on DVD, Beta, DV, or whatever else the broadcasters may ask for that can't handle 24pA.

If you can deliver on DVD then just use your 24pA sequence and burn the DVD. Their DVD players can handle the pulldown removal and will make it the 29.97 interlaced that they are looking for.

Again if you want to do a film out then you MUST shoot 24pA to do it correctly. 24p is a false 24p. It will not transfer to film properly.

24pA is the most flexible if you know how to work with it. I just finished a 24pA segment that I had to turn right around and export to a DV NTSC file and drop into a 29.97 timeline for broadcast. Guess what...It worked perfectly.
 
bossin said:
What I did was edited my footage on a 29.97 then made a new sequence and made that to 23.98 and just copied and pasted the 29.97 footage into the 23.98 timeline. Then I went to Cinema Tools and did the Reverse Telecine and it conform it to 23.98fps.

Trouble?
Click to expand...

It may work. I have never tried it. You are making it harder on yourself though. Why capture, edit, conform, then do final output? You cold just do pulldown removal on capture. Then you would only capture, edit, and final output.

Now that I am thinking about it I do think you are asking for trouble. From my understanding, maybe Barry or someone more knowledgable can comment, cinematools just brings the clip down from 30 frames a second to 24. I don't know where they cut those 6 frames from. Seeing that it says nothing about advanced pulldown removal in cinema tools though I would bet that they aren't taking the right fields out of the footage. This would leave you with 24 frames, but some interlaced footage would still be present in your footage.

I think you should look at your workflow and do it the way that it was designed to work. Remove the pulldown on capture and you are saving yourslef some time and possible headaches.
 
well from my eye, it doesn't look interlaced.

I'm unfamilar with removing the pulldown on capture. I'll have to research it.
 
Thanks ef03 great info!

Question, if 24pA is so superior, why do our camera's have a 24p setting? When I toggle the scene file dial I find that the 24p function looks more over-exposed, more saturated, and much more shuttery. Now this could just be the scene file settings programmed into the camera already, but is there a image difference between the two?
 
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