"Corrado" - A production blog

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Adam -

What kind of guns are you using? If you are using airsofts and rubber guns then you aren't using guns, no matter what the insurance guy says. He'll lie through his teeth about it. He'll say if you have a piece of paper with a picture of a gun on it and an actor holds it in front of the camera it's a friggin' gun...but that won't make it so!

We're using rubber guns and airsofts in our film. Our digital muzzle techniques are all flawless, so there is no need to use blanks. Buying the right airsofts are indistinguishable from the real thing. Rent them from SSI or buy them yourself and start a stockpile (because you'll need 'em on the next film!)

I've dealt with the exact same thing and I've said "Define a gun for me. I want a definition." The definition they'll give you, if they read the language of the underwriter and they are honest, clearly defines guns as firing devices. Something has to come out of it other than air. So, blanks are out...and that's reasonable because blanks are still dangerous.

But, a solid piece of rubber is not a friggin' gun! An airsoft is not a friggin' gun!

As for craft service, here's a great tip. Don't hire craft service. Hire a PA with some cooking experience. Take 2-3 hours to work out a weekly menu and have them buy exactly what you want. You'll cut your craft service budget in half...and you'll be able to buy the same stuff!

I'm lucky, my wife is a gourmand. However, she often doesn't have time to cater or do craft services. So, she'll sit down with the least expensive/least experienced PA and say "I want you to go to Costco. Buy 2 cases of sparkling water, buy 2 cases of coke, buy 2 cases of sparkling fruit drinks, buy this, buy that, borrow my toaster oven and blender, here is a super simple recipe for smoothies. Make 2 'special things' a day. Do it at random times and surprise the crew with an unexpected treat. That's it."

The person costs $100.00 a day plus the food.
 
Hey Prodigi,

The exact verbiage my insurance agent said was no guns, including rubber guns or fight scenes. That policy doesn't like gangster rap even - they think someone is going to get killed somehow.

Either I abide by the rules above or I take out the Traveller's policy - aka the full deal.

A moment about airsofts and rubber guns. I've done quite a bit with these as far as digitally adding muzzle flashes in post. I have the video co-pilot stuff and I know there is way better software and effects than their stuff as well.

I've used digital muzzle flashes for single shots and they are pretty cool. THe gun fires, ejects a digital casing, provides a nice flash, and then a neat little whisp of smoke. Here is what it doesn't do:
  • Rack the slide of the weapon. Meaning you can't show the weapon too "up close" or you will clearly see the action doesn't cycle.
  • Light up the actor's face with the muzzle flash. Either you have to do it with lights or you decide to simply ignore it.
  • Provide a sound. You can certainly provide a bang in post, but a blank sounds awesome and can be recorded live on set in synch with the gunfire. Minor point though.
  • The muzzle flash from a real gun is pretty impressive. I know you can make muzzle flashes as big as you want in post, but the two full auto machine guns we are using will provide some real nice flames at full auto.
I just see it like this - it's a few grand more for the right policy, and I get great gunshots in a complete package, flame, smoke, and sound plus ejection of real rounds. It's the ultimate in realism. If I only had gunshots here and there I'd probably do it in post. But since I have at least one scene where our man fires of two full auto rifles from the hip, realistically duplicating that is a bit harder in post.

I hear you about the craft services food thing. I wish I could do that. Unfortunately, we are moving every day to a new location and the actor's we've managed to attract want tables, chairs and tents. So to have one guy cook, deliver to site and set up seating - even two guys without a big truck is tough.

How's your coming along???
 
How do you plan on ensuring you capture the muzzle flashes? Or are you just going to show it as it's recorded? At a 1/48th shutter speed, you're only likely to see the flash 50% of the time.
 
i founded this treat last night and could'nt get to sleep until i read it all!!...
at first, i was like: woah, this guy is like me, trying to make a movie with 'no money' and stuff...dosnt like renting, like me...BUT THEN!!!...as i kept reading i was feeling more and more the distance between us jajajajaja...and now...i feel just like a little baby boy looking for his titi...

But as other members have said...this encourage us to do some great stuff with our limitations...
 
HBlack said:
How do you plan on ensuring you capture the muzzle flashes? Or are you just going to show it as it's recorded? At a 1/48th shutter speed, you're only likely to see the flash 50% of the time.
Click to expand...

that's what I was thinking. even before digital technology, most muzzle flashes seen in motion pictures were put in optically, no? the tommy guns in Miller's Crossing are a good example. otoh, there are certain fx prop guns with exaggerated muzzle flashes designed to read.
 
Then again, I really do like the look of unedited blank guns, with a lot of smoke and only the occasional flash.
 
Full loads on the blanks have an exxagerated sound AND a huge flame. We'll augment in post if we have to. Those bursts lighting up the actor's face will be way cool.
 
Hey Adamo,

I found a craft service for about $4 for breakfast a head and I believe it was $5 a head for lunch and $5 for dinner. I never used them, so I'm not sure how good they were, but maybe you can do a sample. It was minimum 10 person order I believe, and I'm not sure how they handle deliveries. (if they charge more depending on where you are) (also this probably didn't include drinks)

If you are interested I can get you the info.
 
You gotta wonder what they're serving for $5 a head for dinner. Tom Sizemore and company will probably not be happy if it's hot dogs, potato salad and root beer...
 
ON CATERING:

Don't assume it has to be expensive to cater well. Go to Whole Foods and pick up their catering menu. Their average meal is 8 bucks. They've got great options...you can buy stuff to set up a buffet or you can get box lunches/breakfasts from them.

ON GUNS:

I understand most of Taormina's reasons. The one I disagree with is the flash on the face. That is an EASY effect to create in After Effects. Also, with airsofts you will see full action on the gun. However, I can't argue with the point that nothing is more real than real (or in this case, analog...meaning, a gun firing a blank on set). If the goal is to save money on insurance, then I think digital can produce a result absolutely indistinguishable from "the real thing." If you don't want to risk it...I understand that as well.

One final note on this point. Good ammunition minimizes muzzle flare. If those of us making action films wanted realism then there would be very little blood (particularly since entrance wounds bleed very little...its the exit wound that's a mess), very little/no muzzle flare and the sound of the guns would be quite small. However, we're not going for realism...we're going for emotional impact. Loud guns, lots of blood and big muzzle flares are a stylistic choice almost forced upon us by audience expectation.

This also goes for recoil. It is amazing how little a good gun recoils. However, I digress...
 
just send you an e-mail. the message was too long for PMing.
Let me know that you got it. it might get stuck on your spam mail because its so long.
 
Adding gun sounds and flash in post is the easiest things in the world; use quiet guns that look realistic and do the rest in post. The loud sounds will also impact your choice of locations.
 
Taormina, just awesome. My computer screen as dehydrated my eyes so badly I could be used for a zombie in someone's film. Riveting.
Thank you so much for truly going beyond the call of duty. I have my fingers and toes crossed for you.
In all honesty I have been tossing up wether to even write a thing, given my complete inexperience and the weight yourself and the members who have been posting on this thread, bring to bear here. I have taken a deep breath and now I'm fine.

Here is a question for you on the sound side of things: do you see yourself using a lot of your production sound (of course given those pesky neighbours you mentioned earlier remain away from their power tools)?

Thanks again to you and to all the members here on DVX User
 
Prodigi - Agreed, it can be done digitally. Even rivalling the real thing. But with the pace we have to set, it's done once on set and we're done. I will always save digital in case something goes wrong. Knowing it can be done in post is always a great backup plan.

Luis - Got it -thanks. I'll call them tomorrow. It seems very very interesting!!!!! The only thing I'm wondering about is whether they supply tables and chairs. I'm really conviced we need seating.

Most catering companies provide seating and I think a good meal while seated offsets low budget pay. I don't want my actors pissed and having to eat on their laps.

We'll see.


Seun: We already have permission for full auto gunfire in the heart of LA. No big deal.

Sonic - Oh for sure we'll be using ALL of our production sound. Even on the short I mentioned with the loud neighbors, we didn't have to do any ADR work. The key is being flexible and working around obstacles. And in this movie we aren't really filming anywhere quite that......residential.
 
No problem. Don't forget to look at their gourmet menu for $8 a head. (hahahah) I had forgotten how much stuff they listed on their menu. good luck and let me know how it turns out.

Also, I probably doubt that includes chairs and tables. But they might have an added fee on top of that. If they do, I can only imagine that its reasonable priced. If not, I have a party store near me that would probably rent you some cheaply. (I know I know I hate renting too, but what to do with 15 chairs later?)
 
I had thought that blank guns in the united states had the smoke and flash escape from the side of the barrel as per ATF regulations to keep the barrels plugged. Is there an exception available for film rental companies and studios? I was on a shoot with an AK-47 supplied by a prop house in NYC. It was a real AK that had been converted, the barrel had been crimped shut so the smoke and flash came out from the side.

Or are you just using real guns with blank cartridges in them?

davide
 
I'm so sorry I'm still discussing this issue, but even if one has a permit to shoot with loud guns shooting blanks, let's not forget what you said about hostile neighbours being able to disturb a shoot. Also, since the smoke comes out of the wrong hole when you use guns with blanks, and has to be removed in post, I fail to see the advantage. I imagine that even your actors will prefer quieter guns?
Just thinking aloud since I may have to make a similar decision sometime.
 
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