More filters built-in to a camera possible?

F

filmguy123

Veteran
Could we see a camera in the HVX200 size and price range, maybe in 4-5 years, with more filters built into it, something like this:

- built in ND filters: 1/4 1/8 1/16 1/32 1/64 -> for great exposure control
- built in GRAD ND filters: 3 selections (may be mixed with ND filters)
- built in Polarizer filter (may be mixed with any combo of ND filters)

Basically, those are the only filters really needed on a camera anymore, and for all the "purists" there is still a matte box. It would be really nice to have all of those filters built into the camera; it can be a major pain threading on/off filters.

Imagine being able to quickly get access to a polarizer and/or graduated ND, just be sliding a switch; or having much more control outdoors via more ND filters for achieving a wide-open iris DOF effect.

Basically, the HVX has 3 total filters right now; this would bring the total up to 9x filters - 6 more. Would this idea be feasible?
 
Having a built in ND grad would not really be feasible, as I see it. The advantage to having a mattebox with adjustable filter trays is that you can adjust where the edge of the grad sits in the picture you are photographing. How would you do this on a camcorder?

Similarly, a polarizer needs to be rotated, which is why many matte boxes have rotating stages. Not sure how this could be incorporated with basically building a matte box with permanent filters into the front of the lens.

Solid NDs work in-camera because they are on a rotating disc, with one part of the disc being empty. It would be interesting to see more options than just 1/8 or 1/64, but maybe hard to fit more options onto a small disc that fits in a camera of this size.
 
The new HMC150 looks like it'll have three ND filters on its wheel, which is cool. About the rest of it -- anything's possible, but it all takes up space and makes the product bigger and the manufacturers seem to be prioritizing compact design, so I doubt we'll see it happening. I do kind of like the idea of a built-in ND Grad though; if there was some way to control the position that'd be pretty handy...
 
Yeah, I'd be willing to have a bit bigger body and fit all of that in there. I think if, next to the switch to select which ND grad, there was another lever/switch that could be used to position the filter up/down, maybe even rotate it with another lever. Same thing could be down with to rotate polarizer. The levers could be manual linkage, or to save space could even be smaller and electronically operated. I think it's feasible.

But true, maybe it would need to be a feature for a camera with a slightly bigger body than the HVX (though not necessarily as large as the HPX).
 
Seriously? With all the problems we have with zoom servos, grit in the focus ring, etc.? Sounds like something just waiting to break, to me.

Plus, cost is kept down on 82mm and 4x4 filters because they fit so many cameras. I don't think you'd see a huge cost savings integrating them into the camera, and I would be surprised if the quality could compete with a high-end filter anyway.
 
ProfessorU said:
Seriously?
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Yes.

ProfessorU said:
With all the problems we have with zoom servos
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Problems? I've operated a handful of cameras over the last 8 years and never once had a servo zoom problem... and I have worked that servo zoom to death doing sports highlights. I've taken it to Africa in the middle of nowhere, the beach, been in the rain. Never a single problem

ProfessorU said:
Plus, cost is kept down on 82mm and 4x4 filters because they fit so many cameras. I don't think you'd see a huge cost savings integrating them into the camera, and I would be surprised if the quality could compete with a high-end filter anyway.
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The point isn't to save money, it is for convenience. I have to remove the lens shade, unscrew my UV filter, screw in a Polarizer, and switching back and forth is a pain. That can take a couple minutes, as oppossed to a couple seconds if it was built in. It would be super nice to have them all in camera.

Also, even though it the whole point has nothing to do with money - in fact, I'd still prefer it if was LESS cost efficient, as I'd gain convenience... BUT anyway, without a MatteBox, it becomes difficult to mix say an ND, Grad ND, and polarizer. And since a Mattebox costs $800, that saves $800 right there... plus filters.

I think the quality of the filter could still be high; and, as always, I am sure there would still be something higher quality out there, and in that case, you could still thread it on or use a mattebox.
 
Cokin Z-pro filters are a nice compromise, giving you 4x4 and 4x6 options without requiring the hassle of a mattebox. And they're dirt cheap and work with your existing filters.
I'm just saying that you're talking about a motor to place the filters and a second motor to rotate the filters. Multiply that by two for the grad and polarizer and that's a lot of moving parts that can fail.
There are many threads around here about the motorized zoom not working smoothly, and that's just one motor.
Why not set it up like some film cameras, where you can put a filter in by hand between the lens and the sensor? Placing it by hand eliminates the motor and space issues, although it does open up the assembly and sensor to dust and mishandling.
 
Guess I'm just forward thinking... I always believe there's a way to make it better. Better motors/smarter engineering, etc. For years people have always said "won't work, can't do it, not practical, here are the reasons" and for years it's always ended up improving and coming to pass.
 
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