Something horribly wrong with FCP and the color red

David S. said:
With all due respect, your claims don't ring very genuine.

Comments like "looked like ass" contribute no information.
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Ugh, okay fine. I'm making it up. Your skepticism has repaired the problem. Thanks!

If you don't know what "looks like ass" means you should rent an XLH1 for a weekend. Washed out, smeary, and progressive scan but not in a good way.

Back to the red issue - the problem lies somewhere in Leopard and/or FCS2. I suspect a FCS codec (probably the MPEG2 codec). The problem arose after I updated to both.

David S. said:
Your first post seemed to pay saying the DVD for 2001 was edited on a Mac and encoded on Compressor in Leopard.
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The image was used as an example of the red issue. Nowhere in any post did I even remotely elude to your elaborate, winding and highly specific assumption.

stevenblatter said:
A small example of the red blocks that I had...
red_blocks.jpg


Steven Blatter
http://www.prog-pics.com
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There you go. Did you find a way to fix this or were you forced to live with it?
 
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If you want help, detail your workflow and provide an example in that workflow that you claim is the anomaly.

Otherwise, all we are doing is exchanging posts.
 
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I'm using Leopard and FCS2 and see no problem with blocky reds. Granted, I'm using the XH-A1..

-Kegan
 
David S. said:
MPEG2 isn't a codec. It is an encoding format.
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You'd better tell somebody at Apple. In my Quicktime folder there's a file called "MPEG2codec".

David S. said:
My reds don't exhibit the issues you claim exist on a 2001 Space Odyssey DVD -- however that is relevant.

What does a screen grab from 2001 A Space Odyssey have anything do with Leopard, mpeg2 and Final Cut Pro?
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I needed a frame that exhibited an exaggerated example of the red issue. I said several times that the problem was also effecting Mac's DVD Player. IT DOESN'T EXIST ON THE FREAKING DVD. Now that that's been settled can we finally let it go?

David S. said:
When I ask for a workflow that you have followed so I or others can try to duplicate it to produce the footage that you claim is bad, I get no response.

Show us some footage you shot and the workflow that produces the anomaly.
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I'd love to show you some footage but i'd have to get written permission first and it's not worth the hassle. The workflow is: upgrade to Leopard and FCS2. Enjoy!

Maybe it's the Quicktime upgrade?

The HVX is not part of the equation.
 
Well I can say that - I haven't upgraded to the new Quicktime yet. I'm using 7.2.1 and haven't upgraded due to reports of it not working well and being buggy.

-Kegan
 
I've tried to help.

But if no one can duplicate the issue, not much anybody can do.

As I have said, I've upgraded to Leopard; I have an HVX200, I'm running QT 7.3.1, and I run six or seven pure red encodes through compressor, and it isn't there.

Remember, many of us have resources, and contacts with Apple that can assist in troubleshooting the issue.

When I ask for workflow, and you say "upgrade to Leopard and FCS2. Enjoy!"

Not much anybody with that response.

Hope it works out.
 
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Silly thought: most modern GPUs acccelerate common codecs like MPEG2, so the video card, driver, and possibly display settings/calibration can impact the results...
 
David S. said:
I've tried to help.

But if no one can duplicate the issue, not much anybody can do.
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The only things that have changed are FCP, Leopard and QT.

My workflow consists of putting a DVD in the drive and pressing play. It looks horrible. I fire up BTV. It looks horrible. Final cut pro and DVD studio exports look horrible.

I'd love to provide you with a specific workflow but the problem is effecting everything on the computer that's NTSC. It's the same on PPC and Intel machines.

David S. said:
As I have said, I've upgraded to Leopard; I have an HVX200, I'm running QT 7.3.1, and I run six or seven pure red encodes through compressor, and it isn't there.
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The HVX isn't part of the problem. As for pure red encodes, the problem is mostly visible in gradients like the edges of the shirt and hat in the pic above. A pure red encode isn't going to show you anything.
 
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Have you checked your monitor? I had that same issue a while back on my PC when running Premiere and I ended up sending in my monitor for service, fixed the problem when it came back, no problems since then (but then again I run FCP on my mac)
 
Zak Forsman said:
this is from my own SD DVD on a MacBook Pro running Leopard....

2001sh2.jpg
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Are you running Final Cut? If so which version?

Which version of Quicktime are you running?

Charlie Anderson said:
Have you checked your monitor? I had that same issue a while back on my PC when running Premiere and I ended up sending in my monitor for service, fixed the problem when it came back, no problems since then (but then again I run FCP on my mac)
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If you can see the problem in the original picture it's not my monitor.
 
Zak Forsman said:
I have Final Cut Studio 6.0.2 installed, Quicktime 7.4.1, Mac OS 10.5.2
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Interesting.

Steven Blatter clearly has the same problem I do and I know of several other rigs exhibiting the same behavior - AND I'm seeing the effect making it to broadcast television on shows that I know for a fact are edited on Macs. Now I'm truly perplexed.

Hey Steven, any thoughts?
 
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I discussed these issues with a number of FCS consultants last night some of which are authors and some have been on the development team for FCS2.

Provided samples of the footage that was posted here.

I trust they are pretty credentialed people.

None had heard of the issue, and none had experienced it.

All are running FCS2 on Leopard, either 10.5.1 or 10.5.2. Some with QT 7.3.1 and others with QT 7.4.1. Several had a HVX200 if that is a factor, which the OP stated wasn't.

I'm just reporting what I was told.
 
I'm sorry. This issue isn't new at all, it's a very familiar artifact for those of us who have dealt with DV for the last decade.

According to my experience, I found it in many footages provided by many cams in many formats. What I can say is this:

The famous Blocky Red issue HAS to do with PANASONIC, NTSC and FCP. And I can strongly stand this statement after many years of dealing with this. The previous combination is bound to deliver really crappy reds.

I couldn't say about those of you getting it from an external source such as a DVD, and that might throw Pannie out of the equation. Yet, on the past I've performed many tests in which PV-GS250 and DVX100 DID give me the reds, whilst a Canon XL1 and a Sony PD100 DID NOT.

Here's an old yet relevant thread I onced posted on:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=76036&page=3

I'm very keen on this problem. We were once even obsessed with it, but no-one never got us an answer. So I'll be delighted to help with my previous research if any of you has time to lead new experiments.

Simismo
 
simismo said:
The famous Blocky Red issue HAS to do with PANASONIC, NTSC and FCP.

Simismo
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NO, it absolutely DOES NOT.

My DVD player isn't routed through my HVX or any other Panasonic product, nor are any of the other programs outside of FCP that this problem is effecting.

I've also never had any problems with Panny and red ever with ANY of their products.

This problem is all Mac.
 
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