Something horribly wrong with FCP and the color red

T

TheRedMenace

Carbonite Member
I'm sure some of you have noticed but FCP has royally screwed something up. Initially I thought it was my video card or my MPEG2 codec... until I started seeing it on DVD playback, BTV, in FCP and now all over television.

For some unknown reason Macs are rendering and displaying reds in lego sized bricks.

Anybody figure this one out yet?

FDred.jpg
 
Hi Red:

This is obviously a grab from 2001, A Space Odyssey, right?

What codec is this? I just edited a video in FCP that I shot the footage for on a DVX-100A. The footage looked great, but as soon as I ran a Magic Bullet Looks, my reds and oranges ended up looking identical to this. My blocky reds were caused by the fact that the DV footage is 4:1:1 and it is basically a result of low color sampling. I used FCP's chroma smoothing filter and it removed about 90% of this. I would try the same with this footage, it will help it a lot, although probably won't totally eliminate it.

Dan
 
It doesn't seem to matter where the sample came from - everything in the red spectrum that's spit out of a Mac looks like this.

If it is Quicktime they'd better do something quick. I've seen South Park and Family Guy commercials with that problem as well as ALL of Spike's Powerblock today. Watch Trucks! That F150 looks like it's made outta Legos.
 
You have a grab of a DVD, and it doesn't matter where it came from?

Why not explain what you did with what and detail what versions of everything.

What does South Park and Family Guy commercials have to with FCP and a problem with red?
 
David S. said:
You have a grab of a DVD, and it doesn't matter where it came from?

Why not explain what you did with what and detail what versions of everything.

What does South Park and Family Guy commercials have to with FCP and a problem with red?
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I upgraded to Leopard. After that the red problem started. I suspect it's the MPEG2 codec bundled with FCP.

I mentioned the SP and FG commercials because you can tell by the reds that they were run through a Mac. I could see this being a minor problem for amateur applications, but for networks it's a disaster.

A Google search of the 'red issue' didn't net any results. I'm shocked it hasn't been mentioned anywhere else.
 
It's not a fault of FCP. FCP displays the codec 'as is' unlike similar Avid codecs that apply there own Colour Smoothing filter on import.

You're see a limitation in the Codecs color space.. which will carry over too a DVD since the colour space is limited in there as well.

You'll see this in any bright colours in your DV25 / MPEG2 footage. you can smooth things out with a colour smooth filter.
 
Loki said:
It's not a fault of FCP. FCP displays the codec 'as is' unlike similar Avid codecs that apply there own Colour Smoothing filter on import.

You're see a limitation in the Codecs color space.. which will carry over too a DVD since the colour space is limited in there as well.

You'll see this in any bright colours in your DV25 / MPEG2 footage. you can smooth things out with a colour smooth filter.
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Yes BUT I never had this problem with ANY footage prior to the upgrade to Leopard.

I'm laying the blame on FCP because the codec I suspect is causing the problem originates from there.

stevenblatter said:
I have the same problem with all of my red footage but I thought that it was from the HVX not from FCP?!

Steven
http:///prog-pics.com
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Oh man, if anything that looked that bad came outta my HVX I'd have thought it was broken! :-)
 
None of my HVX footage or other high def footage displays these blocks in the reds but I am not on Leopard either. But I did see it on DV footage. It's called macroblocking and its usually from too much color in a limited color space.

The test to see if it's Leopard would be to see if you are seeing this on HVX footage on your system. If you do, you have an issue. If you don't, I would say you are just seeing artifacts from MPEG2.

That does your HVX footage look like? Go ahead and shoot something red and report back with some grabs.

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
None of my HVX footage or other high def footage displays these blocks in the reds but I am not on Leopard either. But I did see it on DV footage. It's called macroblocking and its usually from too much color in a limited color space.

The test to see if it's Leopard would be to see if you are seeing this on HVX footage on your system. If you do, you have an issue. If you don't, I would say you are just seeing artifacts from MPEG2.

That does your HVX footage look like? Go ahead and shoot something red and report back with some grabs.

Dan
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Been shooting since the upgrade and the HVX stuff looks fine until you dump it out NTSC.
 
TheRedMenace said:
Been shooting since the upgrade and the HVX stuff looks fine until you dump it out NTSC.
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i've seen the blocky reds for years and i'm not running leopard on my bays. it's the DV/DVCAM codec at fault. not anything Final Cut in particular is doing to it.
 
Zak Forsman said:
i've seen the blocky reds for years and i'm not running leopard on my bays. it's the DV/DVCAM codec at fault. not anything Final Cut in particular is doing to it.
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I'm not using DV/DVCAM codec for anything - and the red problem is new for me - and everywhere no matter what the playback source; DVD Player, BTV, FCP, MPEG Streamclip, VLC, Quicktime etc.
 
Would you mind posting a screen grab of footage YOU SHOT with the HVX200 that shows what your concern is?

I just shot a bunch of red footage with the cam and see nothing, and I'm on Leopard and have been for four months.

Plus, how can you confirm that the commercials were run through FCP?

Because they're blocky?
 
David S. said:
Would you mind posting a screen grab of footage YOU SHOT with the HVX200 that shows what your concern is?
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The HVX isn't part of the problem.

David S. said:
I just shot a bunch of red footage with the cam and see nothing, and I'm on Leopard and have been for four months.
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Yeah, the HVX ISN'T part of the problem.

David S. said:
Plus, how can you confirm that the commercials were run through FCP? Because they're blocky?
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The same way I can tell Beauty and the Geek is shot with an XLH1 - because it looks like sh*t in it's own special way.
 
sorry, im not buying the "i can tell" thing. we need facts here. not theory or gut feeling...
 
wgzn said:
sorry, im not buying the "i can tell" thing. we need facts here. not theory or gut feeling...
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Fine. Turn on you Mac and watch the reds on anything NTSC related.

The only place I have ever seen this (in 1:1 rez) is on a Mac. It's a recent problem that effects both the display and export of anything NTSC.

If you want facts - Spike's Power Block cuts on Mac. They have the blocky red issue. Every program on my Mac at home and at work (at a television production company) has the blocky red issue (fortunately we use Avid for the 'air' stuff thus it hasn't effected us).

I have recognized this 'red' problem on programs and promos that have aired recently and it is easily recognizable as the same issue.

Also; the first 3 seasons of Beauty and the Geek shot on the XLH1. It looked like ass.
 
TheRedMenace said:
The same way I can tell Beauty and the Geek is shot with an XLH1 - because it looks like sh*t in it's own special way.
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With all due respect, your claims don't ring very genuine.

The stuff I'm referring to I shot with the HVX200, and edited in FCP.

And exported to DVD, both HD and SD.

I don't see any of your issues.

If you can't produce footage that came through FCP with these issues, then how can anybody verify anything.

Give us some your footage that you've edited through FCP and not grabs from DVDs and claims that cartoons have the same issue.

Comments like "looked like ass" contribute no information.

Your first post seemed to pay saying the DVD for 2001 was edited on a Mac and encoded on Compressor in Leopard.
 
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