5600K Preset Not to my liking

[Noel Evans]

I mean if I were working outside I would make one of my manual settings the "standard" for the day and use that as my reference for the non-changing white balance because there is that one point when starting where all looks white, but that is just me.

Not just you. Pretty much everyone I know and work with.

I am not trying to dilute the issue, as I want the fix also. My reason though is more for resale, I jut want to say 100% and no issues (Im not seeling now btw, but that time will come).

 

[davhud]

The Kodak standard may be ad hoc but it's what we're used to seeing for the last 60 years. If you'd like to bring the world your own version of colorimetry please feel free but expect rigorous peer review.

My camera was not taken in because I was waiting for the "fix".
Also my reasons for using the presets have been outlined in previous posts so I won't go into them here. The fact of the matter is it should work out of the box no excuses.

I agree that the color temperture changes all day outside but when you flip the preset switch and see that the camera looks very different from all the other cameras you produce you would think someone, maybe even you or Barry might say, Hey it looks like we have a problem here. Maybe since or customers rely on these things to make
a living and it's going to be so difficult to fix after the fact we ought to fix it before we ship.
Especially since there are going to be butt heads like davhud out there.
They might even have checked to make sure the a/b balance matched the preset under the same lighting conditions. IE: the bad studio lights. They would have seen right away that the ct was off.
It certainly shows up on my scopes.
This is a test I'm sure any competent manufacturer would make.
I really believe they knew it was a problem all along. It's difficult for me to believe otherwise since they make alot of cameras that are fine
outdoors on preset. For some reason they couldn't fix it and make their shipping schedule.

 

[Barry_Green]

Davhud, if I were as upset about this near-nonissue as you were, I'd sell the 500 and move on. How can this issue be worth so much stress in your life?

With that said, why is it that the 500 was out for months before anyone even NOTICED the issue, if it's such a big deal?

I'm not defending someone delivering a product with a defect (and let's face it, the preset being "wrong" is indeed a defect.) I'm just saying that as a practical matter it's almost a non-issue, and of all the defects that someone could have, this has to be the least I've heard of.

If you're blaming Panasonic for being an "incompetent" manufacturer, I wonder what you'd have to say about JVC and Sony and Red? Have you seen what happens when you shoot a cop car on the EX1? Have you seen what happens when you zoom in to focus, and then zoom back out to shoot on an EX1? Have you seen what happens when you zoom in to 10mm to 25mm on an EX1? Have you seen what happens when you shoot a flat-contrast scene on an HD100? Or when you shoot something under rapidly-changing light conditions on an HD100? Did you know about the "mode changing" bug on the HD100 which precipitated a complete recall, where you could shoot an entire tape's footage and when you went to play back -- all you'd get was a blue screen with the words "mode changing" flashing on it? Have you seen what happens when you shoot something under circumstances where there's a lot of prevalent infrared on an Red One? Did you know that on the original DVX100, when you put it in 24P mode, your audio was out of sync by two frames? Did you know that the DVX was on the market for over SIX MONTHS before anyone even noticed? And the Varicam does the exact same thing, and it had been on the market for YEARS and nobody even noticed?!

Stuff happens. It happens to every manufacturer. Please, either get your camera fixed, or sell it and move on. Trying to crucify Panasonic for what is, in all reality, a "mote" when every manufacturer releases "beams" is just counterproductive ill will.

 

[davhud]

When's the HPX book coming out?

You guys didn't notice it? You saw the camera before everyone else. I never heard a word from you guys about it. But then you guys are in the business of promoting these cameras not pointing out flaws.

Actually there was a post about it on cow in August I believe right about the time everyone was getting their cameras. I didn't have an outdoor gig until Sept when I posted.

I'm not upset I just want it made right. That may mean retuning the camera to them for a refund. Jan even said they put out 3 unacceptable solutions. Why is this one better. I'd be happy to take you guys out of the loop and deal directly with the factory or the US Distributor at the executive level. PM me somebody I can talk to over there and I'll deal with them. I've worked with the Japanese alot.

 

[dolby]

I noticed the green shift from day one and agree it is a problem but I also agree with Barry that with work arounds the color rendering of this camera can be wonderful. Besides most everything I shoot goes through color for grading anyway.

Maybe there can be a firmware fix for this and we won't have to send our cameras in.


dolby

 

[agcohn]

When's the HPX book coming out?

You guys didn't notice it? You saw the camera before everyone else. I never heard a word from you guys about it. But then you guys are in the business of promoting these cameras not pointing out flaws.

Actually there was a post about it on cow in August I believe right about the time everyone was getting their cameras. I didn't have an outdoor gig until Sept when I posted.

I'm not upset I just want it made right. That may mean retuning the camera to them for a refund. Jan even said they put out 3 unacceptable solutions. Why is this one better. I'd be happy to take you guys out of the loop and deal directly with the factory or the US Distributor at the executive level. PM me somebody I can talk to over there and I'll deal with them. I've worked with the Japanese alot.

If you want to return your camera, then return it all ready. Just stop with this inane argument. You have been told that a solution is in the works, yet you keep on complaining. What is the point? You have other problems with your camera? The solution to that problem is to send your camera in, but no, you want to wait for them to fix the preset issue first. Okay, but the onus is on you then.

If you are not going to help yourself, you lose all right to complain.

 

[davhud]

Sigh...

 

[smelni]

asked, acknowledged, fix in the works, getting tested etc etc. Enough with this thread.

and it interesting to look at the common theme in all your posts on this site. its good to bring up issues but come on man, contribute all around to the community.

Your issue so far, noone has disagreed with.

 

[davhud]

Everytime a question has been asked on this forum that I've felt qualfied to answer and hasn't been answered by someone else first I have given my opinion.

Just trying to protect my investment mate sorry no one else cares. If we hadn't done this it would never have gotten fixed.
Cheers to all and happy shooting.

 

[ddp]

........ PM me somebody I can talk to over there and I'll deal with them. I've worked with the Japanese alot.

I believe Jan has tried to move this to PM for some time now you just insist on keeping it "public".

Though no one discredits the problem, my sympathy lies with Jan and Panasonic on this one.

 

[SPZ]

As a spectator of this HPX 500 5600k preset problem development and a person contemplating a future HPX500 purchase, it certainly is a bit worrying to see the issue still going on after 6 months.

This is a minor issue that can be worked around, but it is an issue.

The camera is sold with all available features, and it should perform as stated. If the camera is to have 5600k presets and the costumer bases his shooting on it, its his choice. If the workflow doesn't work due to a faulty preset, its not his problem, its the camera's problem. Blamming on the costumer's workflow and the way he uses the camera is a big PR no no in my book. Addressing the issue should be the focus on the part of the camera manufacturer.

As much of a Panasonic fan and happy costumer that I am, 6 months is a disastrous amount of time for a fix for such high end professional gear.

Its a minor issue, but it should've been fixed ages ago!

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

. Addressing the issue should be the focus on the part of the camera manufacturer.
As much of a Panasonic fan and happy costumer that I am, 6 months is a disastrous amount of time for a fix for such high end professional gear.
Its a minor issue, but it should've been fixed ages ago!

I am not sure why every one seems to believe that camera engineering is easy and fast. We are working on it. It took 18 months to design the camera, it takes 1 month to build the camera, and what we do not want to is competely rebuild each and every camera. I mean if we had to we would but, we don't think it is necessary. Initially the first couple of ideas came as a download that anyone could do, but they were too general and while they fixed the issue, it changed other things. Now it is down to a couple hours on the bench. At this point we are very close.

Best regards,

Jan

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

I'm not upset I just want it made right. That may mean retuning the camera to them for a refund. Jan even said they put out 3 unacceptable solutions. Why is this one better. I'd be happy to take you guys out of the loop and deal directly with the factory or the US Distributor at the executive level. PM me somebody I can talk to over there and I'll deal with them. I've worked with the Japanese alot.

You can PM me. As I have asked for the last week and a half. When you do, I would like the serial number of your camera.

The Japanese engineering staff will not PM you. They do not hang out here. I am a channel, but we will not be talking about what the three failed attempts were, as it is irrelevant. We will be talking about getting your camera fixed.

Best regards,

Jan

 

[SPZ]

I am not sure why every one seems to believe that camera engineering is easy and fast. We are working on it. It took 18 months to design the camera, it takes 1 month to build the camera, and what we do not want to is competely rebuild each and every camera. I mean if we had to we would but, we don't think it is necessary. Initially the first couple of ideas came as a download that anyone could do, but they were too general and while they fixed the issue, it changed other things. Now it is down to a couple hours on the bench. At this point we are very close.

Best regards,

Jan

No one said that, Jan. The issue is not about questioning how good panasonic engineering is, but how this problem is being addressed. As I said before, I'm a happy costumer, and you guys are known for excelent service. Do not take things personally, which I believe is not anyone's intention over here, and wear the costumer support shirt.

We love your cameras, and they are very well engineered. This is a fact.

But this is an issue that should've been addressed. 6 months is production time wasted for someone that relies on this feature of the camera. This is a heavy investment, and the time you're taking to effectively address this issue is, on this level of gear, taking too long.

This is not a design flaw based on the technology at hand, like CMOS Rolling Shutter limitations were the costumer supposedly "has to live with it". This is a defect, the same kind as the " Vignetting issue" that sony is fastly addressing on the EX.

Its acceptable that costumers of a 18k camera package would require a quick fix for this. And certainly isn't expecting anything less than an apology and the best of support to resolve the issue.

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

No one said that, Jan. The issue is not about questioning how good panasonic engineering is, but how this problem is being addressed.
This is not a design flaw based on the technology at hand, like CMOS Rolling Shutter limitations were the costumer supposedly "has to live with it". Its acceptable that costumers of a 18k camera package would require a quick fix for this. And certainly isn't expecting anything less than an apology and the best of support to resolve the issue.

Ah, you missed my point, because you are saying that it should be addressed quickly. It is not so easy as the set up tables are deeply nested in the DSP. It is not so fast.

Best,

Jan

 

[Kit Hannah]

I've seen this go on for long enough too. I'm tired of the couple of people bitching to no end on this when the problem is very minor and for most not a problem anyways. Maybe you should jump ship to Sony so you can have a ton of problems and have to send your camera in for 3 weeks to Sony. Jan has stated that she is waiting for someone to send their camera in so that an acceptable fix can be had. It appears that nobody has done this yet. To say that this is some catastrophic error on Panasonic's part is absolute nonsense. As a professional, you should most of the time be white balancing your camera wherever you go. Most of the time, Outdoor daylight shooting is NOT 5600k, usually only in a controlled studio environment. There could be sooooo many other things wrong that would be a million times worse and you guys are crying over spilt milk. Let it go already and stop jumping on Jan for trying to help. She really doesn't even have to be here, but she's nice enough to take her valubale time and pay attention to your bitchy ass little problems. So let it go, Pani is working on it.

And in the future, be more professional about it. You guys call yourselves professionals, right? Then start acting like it. Geez.