How do you know what's working after reading your script a million times?

C

c.g._eads

Veteran
I have completely lost all objectivity. I have several scripts that I've been working on for years and every time I revisit them, it's very hard to tell what's working and what's not. Something that to a new reader's eye would be completely exciting, bores me to death because I know exactly what's going to happen. This leads to me rewriting scenes that don't need to be rewritten - or even worse, feeling like I need to restructure entire segments of the script. I sometimes read back over earlier drafts and realize that the original scene/writing is better. I know this is because at the time, it bored me, and I felt like I needed to change it.

One thing that's somewhat helpful is using Word's "comments" section. I'll hightlight something after reading through it in an early draft and say "really like this", then when I read that same passage 10 drafts later, I see that comment and trust my earlier judgement.

I'm thinking about something you can do yourself. Of course you can give it to friends, but you only have a limited number of times you can bring a script to someone, and you want to save that for moments when you're really ready.

So what do you guys do?
 
I get it into shape, then dish it out for reads. If people keep hitting on the same issues, then I address them.

Notes and feedback are critical IMO to the elevation of your material.

EJ
 
Do a read through with friends (friends you absolutely trust). you'll find out quickly what works and what doesn't. that's what i do.
 
Thanks guys. I agree with both of those comments, and practice each. However, you can't do that every time you finish a draft (or at least I can't). Getting friends around for a table read takes a lot of organization and time and therefore can only be done every once in awhile. I'm talking about between those bigger moments - when you're struggling through a draft, changing things around, trying new things. I go through a script 200 times before it's finally done and ready. If I tried to have my core group of reading friends read it every time I went through it (or even more difficult - got a table read together), you can see how that would begin to get impractical.

So, any ideas to do on your own?
 
c.g._eads said:
So, any ideas to do on your own?
Click to expand...

The longer I write, the more elusive the answer. So I can't help you at all. But, keep in mind, to make it in the industry, you should figure on completing two feature length scripts per year.

To an extent, it's a numbers game. Set the damn thing down and start something else.
 
Know the theme of your film,,,what are you trying to tell the audience...what do you want them to learn from watching it...when you have a strong message or theme then everything, every scene, links to it so it becomes clear what parts are useful and push the story along and which ones do not...It should all unfold like a set of dominos...If something is not enhancing the theme or advancing the story it doesn't matter how eloquently it is written or how funny it is, it is ultimately redundant...

Getting others to read it out loud is great but as you say, it is not practical to do it if you make constant changes...

Perhaps you also need to let go of it...the process can be never ending and perfection is not possible...an ending point can be though...films are changed during a shoot and even after during the editing process...some fimmakers ever re cut films after they have been released so do not defeat yourself by trying to be perfect...

Not advice...just my opinions...

Cheers,
Stan The Man
 
Why not put it up on triggerstreet? That's what I did with Corrado. They let you put up different versions if I recall.
 
I think every writer has struggled with the same thing. It's very tempting to continue to polish the stone and you could do so forever.

What it comes down to is confidence in your own work. You have to have enough confidence to say it's done, it wont be perfect but it'll be good enough to start on the next stage.

I would highly, highly recommend getting some actors and having them run through some scenes. Work on blocking, do some filming, put together a rough cut. That's how you'll tell if your work has life.

The problem with screenplays is that the experience of reading words on a page is significantly different than watching the action play out in front of you. You may never know if it will be interesting or not, that's where confidence in yourself comes in.

Move to the next stage of pre-production, worst thing that will happen is that you'll do another rewrite.
 
There are many good ideas here but it appears you simply cannot have any objectivity, at least for a while. Don't worry, it happens to everyone.

This is where professional script doctors need to be consulted for their educated insight. They know the business, they will read it with fresh eyes, they're not your friends, they don't owe you a good or bad report, but they cost money. It may be worth it. Would glarring mistakes be worth recognizing so you can move past them? Invest in yourself!

No, I'm not a script doctor, but they're out there.
 
c.g._eads said:
Thanks guys. I agree with both of those comments, and practice each. However, you can't do that every time you finish a draft (or at least I can't). Getting friends around for a table read takes a lot of organization and time and therefore can only be done every once in awhile. I'm talking about between those bigger moments - when you're struggling through a draft, changing things around, trying new things. I go through a script 200 times before it's finally done and ready. If I tried to have my core group of reading friends read it every time I went through it (or even more difficult - got a table read together), you can see how that would begin to get impractical.

So, any ideas to do on your own?
Click to expand...

It sounds like you're not doing an pre-work. By that I mean outline/beat it out/index cards. If you have a solid foundation (outline) then re-writing should only be about the scenes not the sequences of them.

Does this ring a bell or am I off?

Secondly, the 'friends around the table' would IMO be a waste of time unless they were actors. For the most part (90%) I use fellow writers for notes not 'normal people'. Writers know the game and what you're trying for and what you're not. Use them IMO not ordinary peeps.

EJ
 
Hi C.G.,

It sounds like you're addressing two distinct issues, structure and dialog .

Regarding structure, generate 3x5 inch index cards that highlight your scenes (perhaps segmented by color, flag stickies, etc). Then pull back, looking at the big picture, noting the flow, order, continuity, etc. Also develop a checklist of your stories attributes and compare it against plot points from award-winning scripts. You might also want to do a retreat/reflection by listening to something like Robert McKee's "Story" audio CD (I keep a copy on my iPod that I can listen to on the road, out exercising, etc). You might also want to review Part IV of Syd Field's "Screenwriting Workshop" (I've also taken the audio from the DVD and exported it to my iPod for reflection).


Part IV - Rewriting the Screenplay
All writing is rewriting:
• Approaching the rewrite
• Rethinking what you have written
• Redefining and re-establishing the theme, premise, and dramatic action
• The tools of rewriting
• Discovering character through action
• Sharpening and focusing character
• Setting up and paying off the elements of the story line

As far as the dialog goes, I agree with others. You might do monthly read-throughs, using a rolling set of reviewers. If you can't find folks locally, you might consider going to an online guild like TriggerStreet.com etc. Alternatively, you could try dictating the lines into a audio recorder, then listen to the dialog and critique it from various perspectives. For instance, you might segment your target audience from the perspective of a handful of personas. On each reading, do a walk-through (listen) from the perspective of one of the personas; critique the dialog, then replay the dialog and re-evaluate from another persona's perspective. And if you're polorized listening to your own voice, pay someone else a tidbid to read the dialog - it's a cheap investment.

Good luck, Michael
 
Someone mentioned previously getting a analyst to read your material. That's not a bad idea either. Research them. Pay them. Get the notes and administer as and when.

EJ
 
Storyboard it. Taking the story to the next step may help you visualize it on a flat plate instead of a 3D image in your mind. It actually can really help a lot...

Bob
 
This is a really great Thread. I went to triggerstreet because I have not heard of it and I registered. Awesome advice. I look forward to watching and reading at that thread.
 
I put Corrado up on triggerstreet about a year before I went into production. I got valuable feedback and revised the script accordingly. Glad you liked it, Detached.
 
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