Record uncompressed 14-bit (4:4:4) on your HVX200

Well 1/2.7 is basically the same as 1/3. But I agree with the bayer. It's the same case with RED which is actually 3K or the SI.
But regardless of size or bayer, the HV20 image is sharper than pretty much any 1/3 camera out there including the Canon XL-H1. Some even say it is sharper than the 1/2 E1 although I have never compared them in person.
 
Alright... I just dug through enough pages without finding what I was looking for...

Can someone please give me a brief recap of what happened with Hydra / Andromeda?

Thanks.
 
In a nutshell,

In a nutshell,

it was available from Juan for a while as a special modification, i.e. he had to open each camera to directly tap the sensor(s). Many people were interested, but fearful of voiding their warranty, so few were actually done, as everyone was waiting for their warranty to expire.

It seems a well-known company bought it from him, and he was no longer allowed to offer the mod. There have been guesses as to who bought it, but to my knowledge, no confirmation. (Seems terms of the sale prevent Juan from saying who the buyer was). Now, the mod is no longer available, as the sale forbade Juan from making the mod to any more cams.

There is speculation that the buyer is likely to squelch the technology, perhaps so they can bring the technology to market in another camera, perhaps to squelch it altogether.

There is a petition available earlier in this thread that you can sign, requesting that the technology remain available. AFAIK, that has not had any impact on the mod becoming available again. (And, not knowing who the buyer was, I'm not sure who would be "petitioned" to allow continued access). Last I was aware of, it looked like Hydra/Andromeda have met their demise, to the chagrin of many forum participants.

That's the gist of things as I understand them.

x
 
Wow... that really sucks.

I had my eye on Hydra and Andromeda for a while. Is there anything else in that price range that can offer that quality of an image? Nothing I know of...

I sort of feel like doing it myself... now, where did that screwdriver go....

Something feels sketchy about patenting the technology... I mean, the core of the 'technology' is still Panasonic's hardware... its just rewired essentially. It feels too close to trying to patent a baseball pitch or air...

I would like to get the schematics for the DVX... I wonder how hard it is to do this on your own. It seems like basic micro-soldering and USB I/O knowledge would carry you a long ways on this...
 
Also... why has nobody made a camera that can do this out of the box? It seems like you wouldn't need much more hardware to make it happen... in fact, if you just cut out the P2 or Tape recording part of the camera all together, you would need much less hardware to make it happen.

I, for one, would be sold in a second on a camera that did this.
 
djembeplay said:
Also... why has nobody made a camera that can do this out of the box? It seems like you wouldn't need much more hardware to make it happen... in fact, if you just cut out the P2 or Tape recording part of the camera all together, you would need much less hardware to make it happen.

I, for one, would be sold in a second on a camera that did this.
Click to expand...


Uh, that's an easy one: money. All cameras within a model line have the same basic components. That's because it costs less to order a run of 200,000 units than it is to order a run of 100,000 units of a lower end model and 100,000 of the higher model. That's Cost Accounting 101. The company simply disables more and more features as you go down the line in terms of price. Its called dumbing down. A prime example is those CVS disposable cams. They have about 1/4 of the resolution and 1/2 of the capture time they are capable of. The company could either have multiple models at different price points with different resolutions and run times (they did this) or they could come out with a "new and improved" model each year to keep you, the customer, excited. But which was really the same exact cam, but the software allowed a longer time or better quality (they did this as well). Of course once somebody figured out how to hack those CVS cams and change the resolution to full and double the run time, the company was ticked because on top of the increased capabilities, the hack also turned a one-time-use cam into a one purchase use forever cam, which wiped out their profits. (I have two hacked CVS cams and love them)

You make people pay more for the privilege of having more features, but since its the same product, its pure profit. There are armies of cost accountants and market researchers employed by Sony, Canon et al to figure out how to maximize the profits. They specialize in enabling just enough features to hit the sweet spot of the market, and then add a slew of extra features for the next higher model in the line for the segment of the market that "needs" to have something better than everybody else. Because its the same cam, its pure profit.

My guess is that the guy who made the Hydra/Andromeda simply figured out hot to bypass the dumbing down by Panasonic. That would be a very troubling thing for Panasonic because all of a sudden its customers would not need to buy the more expensive (i.e., more profitable) cams anymore. Since most of their profit comes from the more expensive models (even though they sell a way lower volume), that would hit Panasonic with 10s of millions of dollars of lost profit. I have no doubt that Panasonic bought up the rights just to salt this away. Its not dickery, its good business sense. And the guy who figured it out. Bully for him for making the effort and getting paid. That's capitalism. But as somebody who now has to buy the higher end features from a big company at a big price, I'd say screw him. But that's life.

No worries though, the world of High def video has barely started down the technology cycle of Moore's law. I bet that in 5 years, cams with the Red's capabilities will be available to the average consumer for about 5 grand. You always pay to be on the leading edge of the curve........

You think the RED is cutting edge at 4K? Its not, that technology is years old. There are already 8K cams being tested at R&D departments at the big companies.
 
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Sony ?!

Sony ?!

I think it could be Sony that bought off Juan with his invention. Sony with their new mini-xd cam, which they hope to knock out hvx with - those who have hvx will probably stick with it, but many of those buying from scratch will probably go for sony. Hydra would challenge everything xdcam has to offer over hvx - mainly superior resolution and even go as far as providing 1080 60p. So, what we get is the xdcam with 4:2:0 (I'm a PAL, is it still 4:1:1 in NTSC realm?), interframe compression and all the other "goodies" HDV has to offer on one hand for nearly 8000$ and HVX (4000$ plus 3500$ for Hydra mod?) giving us 2K, 4:4:4 RGB RAW with the superior frame-by-frame codec. Who on earth would buy Sony, given that the memory prices are nearly equal. Someone who would prefer Fujinon over Leica ?) In my opinion it was Sony that saw Hydra's ability to turn HVX into such superior fillmaking machine as a threat to their product, and decided to terminate it. I don't think it were Pana seeking to eliminate a threat to their higher-end gear - I mean real people (like indies) don't buy HPXs and other high-end gear - companies, production studios do that, and to them a difference of 15,000 bucks is nothing. Do you guys know how much stuios shell out just for air conditioning per year? Even if they have flos, it is an impressive figure. Imagine a serious studio or production house, with their own van, an army of fresnels in all sizes and a spacius checkbook running around with an HVX. It is a small cam (but what a great small cam it is...), many would simply not pick it up as it would ruin their reputation as "serious dps". So in the end, it's indies that will have to drool over Red or just forget the whole Hydra story and keep shooting that great 4:2:2 1080p... Barry, what do you think?

Sorry if I sound fatalistic
 
Just to reiterate: 2k is useless.

The Dynamic Range and 1080p60p was the end all, plus bypassing the DVXproHD codec.

Ah.. I still dream about Hydra.
 
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