Is there something like the FS-100 firestore drive for this camera? and other Q's

P

pablovi

Active member
Hi, I'm in the process of selecting a new camera to be bought by the company I work for, we are currently shooting with the DVX100a, and we did some test and 6 episodes with the F900 Sony Cine Alta, but we can not longer afford to shot and edit with it, the budget almost doubles, and they just told us that both the camera "rental" and the image post-production (inlcuding the editing) will come out of our budget, before it was being payed by another part of the company. So, bottom line is, we can not longer afford to shoot with the Cine Alta, and we don't want to shoot with the DVX anymore!

So, I have to choose the best affordable HD camera, I know and have used the HVX 200, and I know what it can do and I like it very much, but after reading about this camera, I think I might choose this one instead. Does this camera haves an exteranl HDD to record data to? or can only be recorded to SxS memory cards?
Is there an exteranal card reader or somethign resembling a video deck for editing? or do I have to download the video via the camera?

I love the 1/2" sensor, I hate the depth of field of 1/3" ccd's! Can this camera do ramps, or only slow motion? Do this camera haves different gammas, preferably cine like ones? What's the aprox. lattitude of the sensor using a cine like gamma?

Thanks in advanced.
 
The EX1 records to SxS "flash" memory cards. There is an SDI output that offers a 4:2:2 uncompressed stream that can feed a costly digital capture system like Wafian ($17,000 US).
The camera can record an HDV compatible format, but you lose a lot of modes and frame rates/resolution choices. That will output via Fire Wire to a hard disc recorder like the DR60, but at HDV quality only.
Best advice is to purchase enough memory cards to cover a day's shooting and consider it an investment.

As for gamma curves, this camera has numerous choices, and on top of that, you can tweak scores of parameters, including gamma, black gamma, black level and 6 matrices for various color interprestations. I was able to play with matrices to give a sepia-like film look last night. It was fascinating to be able to do in-camera, what we normally only could do in post.
Slow motion, fast motion, time lapse--the camera does it all. Overcrank to 60fps and play at 24fps in 720P. 30/24P in 1080P. Shoot as slow as 1fps, or in time lapse, 1 frame per day. Very capable camera!
 
Thanks!

Is there an SxS reader(player) to import the video to a NLE? we are using Avid Nitris or Avid Adrenaline news cutter. And do you know how long will it take to import the footage? longer, shorter than real time?

Thanks again.
 
using USB2 on the Mac straight out of the camera, the files copy off at about 2.5 times faster than real time. If you have an express card slot (on a laptop, or PCI card) it is apparently a good deal faster still.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the fastest footage transfers available, for any HD camera.
 
check avid compatibility. Don't think it is there yet. Only some resolutions. Capturing from the SDI out into the Adrenaline would work but only in real time
 
Thanks!

Well, that would be a problem! That means we must use the Camera to get the footage into the NLE. We are getting two cameras, but the editor and producer don't want to use a camera as a VTR. Too bad, I really want to use this camera!

Thansk again.
 
I agree with Mark. We came to the same conclusion: Buy a bunch of SxS cards and the Sony ($250) reader. We rotate the cards from camera to the reader for off-load and then back... But be real organized!!! You don't want to re-format a card you haven't off-loaded.
 
What about the AJA IoHD? It´s 10bit 422. So, it could be a good choice to for capture. Please correct me if I´m wrong.
 
FrankC said:
I agree with Mark. We came to the same conclusion: Buy a bunch of SxS cards and the Sony ($250) reader. We rotate the cards from camera to the reader for off-load and then back... But be real organized!!! You don't want to re-format a card you haven't off-loaded.
Click to expand...

I would, but the Avid incompatibility is a big issue, since it's a big network, they have a deal with Avid, and they only have Avid systems. So we won't be able to edit for I dont' know how long. And I don't know if it will be compatible with Avid systems at all!

I think Avid NLE's are able to display the EX1 video in 25Mbps, if that is true, I can buy it and shoot in that mode, waiting for the 35Mbps solution to come out. But no one has give me a correct anwser yet.

Regards.
 
Convergent Designs Flash XDR ($5,000 when it is released) should be able to record to flash-based media using HD-SDI (4:2:2) and numerous MPEG-2 compressions (i.e. 100mb/s, 160mb/s iFrame, etc.)

HOWEVER, I have spoken to a few industry professionals (who work with HDCAM, HDCAM SR, 2k & 4k scans, etc...) and have been told that the QUALITY level of the SxS MPEG-2 LONG GOP 35mb/s video is so good that you'll barely notice any difference by using a Convergent Designs type device. It's simply a waste of money.

Also, you'd be happy to hear the PMW-EX1 has the EXACT SAME Cine-Gamme as Sony's F900 and F23 CineAlta camera. The EX1 is part of the Cine Alta family.
 
pablovi said:
I would, but the Avid incompatibility is a big issue, since it's a big network, they have a deal with Avid, and they only have Avid systems. So we won't be able to edit for I dont' know how long. And I don't know if it will be compatible with Avid systems at all!

I think Avid NLE's are able to display the EX1 video in 25Mbps, if that is true, I can buy it and shoot in that mode, waiting for the 35Mbps solution to come out. But no one has give me a correct anwser yet.

Regards.
Click to expand...

Pablovi,

I'd to clear some things up for you.

First, I regularly edit 16mm and 35mm on AVID Media Composer Adrenaline and was an editing major in film school. AVID is a very, very strange company. While I love editing on AVID for film, they are incredibly slow to support new formats and workflow's.
If you are going to be shooting in the 35mb/s mode on the EX1, you need to have your post-workflow down before you invest in a NLE. You will be making a huge mistake if you choose to "wait" for AVID to support the 35mb/s mode (or to fully support the XDCAM EX format). This is a recipe for disaster.

Currently, AVID Express Pro supports the XDCAM EX format (25mb/s only). BUT Media Composer does not support either.

There is no word from AVID (I know a few guys that work for AVID) as to when they will support the XDCAM EX fully. All this means is go to Apple.com and pickup a copy of Final Cut Studio.
 
Ooohh... I assumed FCP (shouldn't do that)! Other option is to cycle the cards to a laptop (perhaps with an outboard drive). Philip can correct me if I'm wrong, but the AJA I/O may not be a solution since the 422 SDI out on the EX1 is a "DV" stream only, and not HD.
 
FrankC said:
Ooohh... I assumed FCP (shouldn't do that)! Other option is to cycle the cards to a laptop (perhaps with an outboard drive). Philip can correct me if I'm wrong, but the AJA I/O may not be a solution since the 422 SDI out on the EX1 is a "DV" stream only, and not HD.
Click to expand...


Hi Frank,

The HD-SDI stream on EX1 is in fact an uncompressed-HD stream (4:2:2).
 
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DaKrisht said:
Pablovi,

I'd to clear some things up for you.

First, I regularly edit 16mm and 35mm on AVID Media Composer Adrenaline and was an editing major in film school. AVID is a very, very strange company. While I love editing on AVID for film, they are incredibly slow to support new formats and workflow's.
If you are going to be shooting in the 35mb/s mode on the EX1, you need to have your post-workflow down before you invest in a NLE. You will be making a huge mistake if you choose to "wait" for AVID to support the 35mb/s mode (or to fully support the XDCAM EX format). This is a recipe for disaster.

Currently, AVID Express Pro supports the XDCAM EX format (25mb/s only). BUT Media Composer does not support either.

There is no word from AVID (I know a few guys that work for AVID) as to when they will support the XDCAM EX fully. All this means is go to Apple.com and pickup a copy of Final Cut Studio.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I't great to hear that the EX1 is a par tof the Cine Alta Family and that it has the same Cine gamma as the F900, it's gourgeous! I used to be anti-video but after using the F900 I'm in love, with HD.

I know FCP will solve most of our problems, but currently we don't have acces to a FCP system in the company, and I don't belive they are willing to buy us one, just yet.

If the HD-SDI out it's indeed uncompressed HD 4:2:2, we can use that for the time being, to capture the footage to the Nitris.

Since I'm the DOP, I want the best image quality available that we can afford, and right now that is the EX1, but I need to find a solution for the Editor, so we can actually import the footage to the Avid system and work with it.

The best solution that I see now, is to use one of the EX1 cmeras as a player and use it's HD SDI out to capture the footage as it was an HDCAM deck. And wait that either, Avid fully supports the EX format or that they build us a FCP system.
 
I spoke to an Avid rep nearly a month ago at a trade show in San Francisco and he assured me that support for the EX-1 codec was imminent. It is true though that they won't be at NAB.

Lenny Levy
 
pablovi said:
Thanks!

I't great to hear that the EX1 is a par tof the Cine Alta Family and that it has the same Cine gamma as the F900, it's gourgeous! I used to be anti-video but after using the F900 I'm in love, with HD.

I know FCP will solve most of our problems, but currently we don't have acces to a FCP system in the company, and I don't belive they are willing to buy us one, just yet.

If the HD-SDI out it's indeed uncompressed HD 4:2:2, we can use that for the time being, to capture the footage to the Nitris.

Since I'm the DOP, I want the best image quality available that we can afford, and right now that is the EX1, but I need to find a solution for the Editor, so we can actually import the footage to the Avid system and work with it.

The best solution that I see now, is to use one of the EX1 cmeras as a player and use it's HD SDI out to capture the footage as it was an HDCAM deck. And wait that either, Avid fully supports the EX format or that they build us a FCP system.
Click to expand...

Hi Pablovi,

You can ingest 35mb/s EX1 footage into the AVID via the DNxHD codec. There are a few workflow's regarding this, please go to the Avid Community Exchange to read more.

Google: "Avid DNxHD PMW-EX1 XDCAM" and you should find it somewhere.
 
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