New panasonic HD camera three 1/3 inch chips, "the new DVX"

matt s. said:
I take it its HD only? No standard def option? I dont know if standard def is even an option with the AVC-HD.
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Hmmm, that'd be surprising if it didn't have SD, but I didn't see any mention of it in the press release.

But yes, the format AVC-HD does allow for SD recording in both PAL and NTSC. So this HMC150 might have it.
 
Did anyone notice the lens? Isn't the HVX's a 55mm Equivalent? THis one's a 28mm / 35mm Equivalent?
 
Barry_Green said:
Don't know. All we know is that the crave guy said "new chips". The official Panasonic press release doesn't use the word "new".
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The crave dude also estimated $6,000. ???

Guess I would strongly consider the cam for the fact of the SD cards if I were in the position to choose HVX or the 150.
 
Oh! I see it now. I got mad when I saw 1080i, but it lists the 1080p Formats. Does that mean we can hope for a FullHD 1080p Frame? I gotta admit the EX-1 frame looks like a 1080p frame.

I want that from my Pana cam, along with Pana-flavored menus, color and ESPECIALLY motion rendering.

Here's to a price tag of 3,999.99 and OFF THE SHELF SD CARDS!!!
 
Kholi said:
Did anyone notice the lens? Isn't the HVX's a 55mm Equivalent? THis one's a 28mm / 35mm Equivalent?
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HVX is about 30mm IIRC. Lens is 4.2-55mm, but in terms of 35mm equivalent it's about 30.5mm-420mm or so.

So I guess they're saying that this new camera has a slightly wider wide angle? Maybe 10% wider? That's cool. No mention of telephoto range though.
 
Barry_Green said:
HVX is about 30mm IIRC. Lens is 4.2-55mm, but in terms of 35mm equivalent it's about 30.5mm-420mm or so.

So I guess they're saying that this new camera has a slightly wider wide angle? Maybe 10% wider? That's cool. No mention of telephoto range though.
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Okay just a BIT wider stock, then. Hmm.. And since this is the DVX version, I wonder if the "HVX" version might be full auto lens?

Assuming that there's about to be a tasty HVX-style release, of course.
 
tmnt said:
The crave dude also estimated $6,000. ???
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Probably because the HVX is $5995 MSRP and from the photo this thing looks exactly like an HVX.

I'd have to guess it's lower though, because first of all the model number is lower. If this was an HMC200 then maybe it'd be the same as the HVX but with AVC-HD instead of P2, and then maybe the price would be the same. (even though I'd still expect a DVCPRO-HD P2 camera to cost more than an AVC-HD SDHC camera!)

But in addition to that it's a 150 instead of a 200, so I think it's gonna be lower. I just have to think that this is aimed at the DVX crowd. As such, surely it'll be DVX-priced? The DVX was $3995 for many, many years, and only recently dropped to $2995. This new unit looks to take its place plus it's NTSC/PAL switchable. My guess is $3500.

Guess I would strongly consider the cam for the fact of the SD cards if I were in the position to choose HVX or the 150.
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I'd much rather have P2/DVCPRO-HD than any long-GOP format; I think the HVX is likely going to prove to be the better camera (as the price tag, if I'm right, should bear out). I think the 150 is designed to knock HDV on its patootie. But I bet what you say is accurate, a lot of people looking at the two will likely be swayed by the long recording times (I mean, 12 HOURS on a single card? Granted that's at the 6-megabit rate, but even 8 megabits should deliver 10 hours, and 8 megabits should about match HDV... 10 HOURS on a single card? Tape is so dead...)
 
what would the SD card capacity have to be for the 12 hours of footy?
What would a standard 1GB or 2GB card give you?

Now that ive read Barrys post i see it alldepends on bit rate.
 
Kholi said:
Okay just a BIT wider stock, then. Hmm.. And since this is the DVX version, I wonder if the "HVX" version might be full auto lens?

Assuming that there's about to be a tasty HVX-style release, of course.
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No indications of any tasty HVX-style release yet. So far this is a model that (according to their model numbers) would slot in below an HVX, and above a DVX. So I don't know that we can read into this announcement any idea about a new HVX...
 
matt s. said:
what would the SD card capacity have to be for the 12 hours of footy?
What would a standard 1GB or 2GB card give you?
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They said a 32GB SDHC card would give 12 hours of HD at the 6 megabits rate. So, 1/16th of that for a 2GB card, means probably about 45 minutes.
 
Barry_Green said:
Probably because the HVX is $5995 MSRP and from the photo this thing looks exactly like an HVX.

I'd have to guess it's lower though, because first of all the model number is lower. If this was an HMC200 then maybe it'd be the same as the HVX but with AVC-HD instead of P2, and then maybe the price would be the same. (even though I'd still expect a DVCPRO-HD P2 camera to cost more than an AVC-HD SDHC camera!)

But in addition to that it's a 150 instead of a 200, so I think it's gonna be lower. I just have to think that this is aimed at the DVX crowd. As such, surely it'll be DVX-priced? The DVX was $3995 for many, many years, and only recently dropped to $2995. This new unit looks to take its place plus it's NTSC/PAL switchable. My guess is $3500.
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Even when considering new technology over old? And given that, even if it's still long-GOP, the image stands to actually be cleaner than DVCproHD formats? I guess that doesn't matter in comparison to what's considered "PRO" lineups though?

I'd much rather have P2/DVCPRO-HD than any long-GOP format; I think the HVX is likely going to prove to be the better camera (as the price tag, if I'm right, should bear out). I think the 150 is designed to knock HDV on its patootie. But I bet what you say is accurate, a lot of people looking at the two will likely be swayed by the long recording times (I mean, 12 HOURS on a single card? Granted that's at the 6-megabit rate, but even 8 megabits should deliver 10 hours, and 8 megabits should about match HDV... 10 HOURS on a single card? Tape is so dead...)
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What's the next step up for AVC-HD coming from 13 which is listed in the press release? Are you expecting 20? And how would that compare to say DVCproHD/100 ?
 
For cheap folk like me the (although magnificent) P2 cards were almost a dealbreaker (and I'm sure for many, were).
 
Kholi said:
Even when considering new technology over old? And given that, even if it's still long-GOP, the image stands to actually be cleaner than DVCproHD formats? I guess that doesn't matter in comparison to what's considered "PRO" lineups though?
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You have access to the same info I have, I'm reading the press release...

As for AVC-HD: long-GOP is a pain to edit, I'd much rather have intraframe. It's getting better though; I put the EX1 through its paces and found the 720p is pretty solid and the 1080p is solid too; only place I could "break" it badly was in 60i. That's a big improvement over HDV. They've obviously improved the codec encoding efficiency. So if AVC-HD brings similar performance improvements (and it should far exceed any variant of MPEG-2) then long-GOP corruption should be a thing of the past. But editing will still be a hassle. Right now you can get maybe one stream of AVC-HD playing in realtime, vs. about 10 streams of DVCPRO-HD!

What's the next step up for AVC-HD coming from 13 which is listed in the press release? Are you expecting 20? And how would that compare to say DVCproHD/100 ?
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There's no mention in the press release of any bitrates other than 6 or 13. We know the format can go to 24, but nobody's yet exceeded 15... or, wait, does Canon go to 17? I don't remember. In any case, I think for marketing purposes it'll have to do at least 18, because that should match XDCAM-HD or XDCAM-EX codec quality. If it does more than 18 that's gravy. I'm hoping for 24 but not counting on it; the Crave guy suspected 20. 20 would be great!

How would it compare to DVCPRO-HD? We'll have to see. It's still long-GOP 4:2:0 vs. Intraframe 4:2:2. But it might be full-raster 1920 vs. prefiltered 1280, so that may cancel out.

The biggest thing is stock/commodity SD cards with massive record times, vs high-speed professional/widely supported P2 cards. That's the decision-maker for a lot of people, and the cool thing there is I think the decision is obvious for most people. You either need P2, or you don't, there's not all that much gray area. So people should be able to easily choose.

Again, we really don't know any features yet so this may have lots of other fun stuff in it, or it may not. This was a "pre-NAB press release" so it might just be a teaser. Even so, if what they've announced is all it does, it sounds like a high-def DVX+.
 
tmnt said:
For cheap folk like me the (although magnificent) P2 cards were almost a dealbreaker (and I'm sure for many, were).
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Exactly. That's why I've been screaming at 'em for almost two years to introduce something like this! This is what DVXUsers have needed: Panasonic gamma, Panasonic color, 24p, all the goodness of the DVX, in high def, in an affordable commodity recording format, with long record times.
 
This will find its way into the hands of a lot of amateur filmmakers. 13Mbps is roughly 1/8th of DVCProHD. A 4GB card will hold roughly 42 minutes of footage at that bitrate.
 
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