First, we're discussing patents, which is different from copyright. And second, what's the point you're trying to make here? All of the manufacturers you mentioned have patented their design or are getting it patented. Indeed, Letus even stated on their site that the technology used to flip the image is proprietary.
DVrig HD knock off from India
- Thread starter ryan brown
- Start date
First, we're discussing patents, which is different from copyright. And second, what's the point you're trying to make here? All of the manufacturers you mentioned have patented their design or are getting it patented. Indeed, Letus even stated on their site that the technology used to flip the image is proprietary.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Having a prisma to flip an image.
What a novelity!
I wonder If i could get a patent on mounting the camera upside down to flip the image.
Frank
What a novelity!
I wonder If i could get a patent on mounting the camera upside down to flip the image.
Frank
Speaking of Hollywood copy, the movie called "The Lake House" was a copy of a Korean movie or shall I say "re-make". There are so many others....but I assumed they pay for some sort of royalties.
Okay, here's what I don't understand. I'm still trying to grasp some of these arguments. If the Indian version is so bad and you get what you pay for, then why worry about it. People will come around to the good brand that is not a knock off. On the other hand, if the Indian version is as good as the patented version then it must not be hard to make since they even sells it at a lower price.
But yes, the point is one should not copy the other's design when it is patented or copy right, and I agree. But here's an old belief I have. I don't think there is any company in the world that makes to the top without breaking any laws. It's a matter of getting caught or not or have the money/resource to fight in court.
But yes, the point is one should not copy the other's design when it is patented or copy right, and I agree. But here's an old belief I have. I don't think there is any company in the world that makes to the top without breaking any laws. It's a matter of getting caught or not or have the money/resource to fight in court.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
As I said, its over now.
The Indians make a different and own uniqe verision now.
It´s not a cheap knock off anymore. Genuine indian.
....thou it´s still cheap ;-)
Frank
The Indians make a different and own uniqe verision now.
It´s not a cheap knock off anymore. Genuine indian.
....thou it´s still cheap ;-)
Frank
Jason Ramsey
Admin
b/c it's called stealing. If they stole the design... if it's an outright rip-off of an existing product, well that's not good. And, not something I want to support. Not to mention completely non-creative or original... Artists tend to identify with creativity (at least I do)... and I want to reward that... not some "thief" who is profiting off of someone else's work and claiming it to be their own. There isn't much difference in this than someone burning a bunch of music and selling it on ebay now is there? Not too much.... The only difference is that there isn't billion dollar companies to sick their big expensive lawyers on all these people.
I don't want to make a movie, or a song, or anything else only to have someone steal it from me and claim it as their own, do you?
Likewise, this site doesn't allow piracy talk, etc... and kinda starting to wonder how this kinda talk is any different. Stealing is stealing, and it's certainly not one of the things this site wants to "promote" in any way shape or form, for obvious reasons, and for just plain good reasons.
Later,
Jason
Barry_Green
Moderator
All right, let me help you understand it. Dennis Wood of CineVate spent maybe $100,000 so far developing the Brevis. Spent on tests and prototypes and optical engineers and experimental versions and abandoning those versions when they didn't work right; spent on travel to manufacturers and researching materials and more prototyping, refining and refining and reworking and fixing and re-engineering until he got the product to where it is today. A hundred thousand dollars, out of his pocket, gone. So when he sells a Brevis, he has to recoup that investment, hence he charges $1200 or whatever.
Now some ripoff company comes along, disassembles the Brevis and maybe recreates it part-for-part (not similar quality, but similar enough that it vaguely functions). Maybe costs them $500. So they put it on the market. What's the difference? Brevis has $99,500 more debt than they do. So he CAN'T sell it at the same price -- the thieves can undercut him tremendously. So they do. And what's the net result? Dennis gets screwed and goes into bankruptcy, and some immoral thieves reap the rewards.
Does that sound right to you? Does that sound like the kind of business model you want to support?
I totally support buying from the authentic manufactures that's why I purchased my adapter directly from LetusDirect and my Sony EX1 from reputable retailers.
Speaking of buying replica or copied versions, I was traveling to a third country and saw this really nice gold plated Sony microphone so I purchased one for half the price. Once I got home and the microphone doesn't sound as good as it suppose to, my brother disect the microphone and found out that all the parts were fake even the logo and everything. I felt that if I would have known, I would not even spent the half price for that piece of junk. That brings me to the following point.
For the sake of arguments, people like me will quickly turn around and purchase only the branded version from a reputable retailer. The issue with the Indian version is that perhaps it's good enough for those people who purchased it, if not, they will quickly turn around to buy the real deal instead of a knock off. So Dennis Wood shouldn't have to worry about those copy cats because his version is still superior and many people will definitely know the difference. I did. Well..., I purchased a Letus Exreme.
Speaking of buying replica or copied versions, I was traveling to a third country and saw this really nice gold plated Sony microphone so I purchased one for half the price. Once I got home and the microphone doesn't sound as good as it suppose to, my brother disect the microphone and found out that all the parts were fake even the logo and everything. I felt that if I would have known, I would not even spent the half price for that piece of junk. That brings me to the following point.
For the sake of arguments, people like me will quickly turn around and purchase only the branded version from a reputable retailer. The issue with the Indian version is that perhaps it's good enough for those people who purchased it, if not, they will quickly turn around to buy the real deal instead of a knock off. So Dennis Wood shouldn't have to worry about those copy cats because his version is still superior and many people will definitely know the difference. I did. Well..., I purchased a Letus Exreme.
LOL
If flipping the camera upside down involved precise angles and measurements and size of camera in relation to the condenser, achromat, GG, and front glass in order to ensure sharpness, lack of aberation in the image, color, acceptable contrast ratio and maximum light ... then yeah you just might be able to patent the process. And a good thing since figuring all that stuff out took an engineering degree and a lot of time.
And if you built the hardware to do it then you could certainly patent the design.
yup, and P+S Technik has $995,000 more debt than brevis, and they CANT sell it at the same price- the brevis can undercut them tremendously.
Barry I respect you to the Nth degree, but that was a horrible analogy.
Also- if anybody thinks Automakers dont *steal* designs/features from their competitors, you live in a dream world.
leteeci
Well-known member
Yeah! It would be crazy to put engine on the roof, if there are some more proven places..
:violent5:
yup along with Xenon Healights, LED Tail Lights, Navigation systems, Hybrid Technology..... Im sure Preston Tucker would have enjoyed your attitude on the subject
It's a perfectly apt analogy. Did Brevis took apart the P+S Technik and duplicate the exact blue print? Of course not! I don't even think the mini35 is a vibrating design. You're trying to compare copying a design with developing an original design based on a broad principle. If what you say is true then nobody ever invented anything.
I decline to *argue* this any further. Ive got some shooting to do this evening.
Good day.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Not Brevis but where is the difference between Redrock, P+S and SG?
All 3 have a spinning GG in a birdhouse and a achromat.
SG and Redrock are cheaper.
Never heard anyone here in the forum accusing them as cheap knock off patent breakers.
Think for a moment.
Oh by the way
P+S also "stole" plans that where allready arround for a while.
Long before the Internet the idea of capturing the image on a spinning GG was disscribed a geman DIY magacine way before P+S came out with that.
I can remember reading those articles. The idea came original from a polish or czechish camera operator. It was called "Mobile Telecine" and was a DYS thing.
He said he first wanted to makle a device to transfer 8mm film to video. Playing arround with lenses he discovered the DOF effect.
And guess what?
It looked exactly like the P+S. Even that little grip on the birdhouse was there.
Frank
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Sure, the ideas were around. But take the SGPro, the M2 and the Mini35 and shoot footage with them; are the results identical? Same sharpness? Light loss? Bokeh? Vignetting? Guess what? They're all different. Just like all cars are from the same "plan" in the sense that they have 4 wheels, an engine, a steering wheel etc.
The research goes into developing these different qualities of the adapter are far different from just taking one apart and duplicating the exact design.
The research goes into developing these different qualities of the adapter are far different from just taking one apart and duplicating the exact design.
Okay, so are the results of the knock off identical to the Brevis, SGPro, M2 ect.? Same sharpness? Light loss? Bokeh? Vignetting? Guess what? They're all different.
That's why I said I am still grasping the real argument here. It just seems like arguments and nothing real solid that I can grasp. The only principal that I agree is one should not steal someone elses'. But as far as details go, everyone steals everyone elses sometime or another.
Mattykins
Cute Member
Guys, I'm sorry. But we don't live in an idealistic world.
My first company was tossed to the ground because my videos went out on limewire. So I couldn't support myself. Was I pissed? Yeah. But you know, there was nothing I could do about it.
Reverse engineering is something real. Isn't everything based off of something else? Is it wrong to copy something, totally. But it happens.
And no matter what you say on this board, you will not change global politics, or human nature. I am sorry. We don't live in a idealistic world. The world we live in sucks.
Thats all I have to say about it.
My first company was tossed to the ground because my videos went out on limewire. So I couldn't support myself. Was I pissed? Yeah. But you know, there was nothing I could do about it.
Reverse engineering is something real. Isn't everything based off of something else? Is it wrong to copy something, totally. But it happens.
And no matter what you say on this board, you will not change global politics, or human nature. I am sorry. We don't live in a idealistic world. The world we live in sucks.
Thats all I have to say about it.
Good different? Things like diffusions and bokeh are a matter of taste, but other things like build quality, light loss, vignetting, sharpness etc. are more subjective measurements. The reason all these manufacturers spend money on R & D is to improve the quality of their adapter. The knockoff companies don't give a crap. Their commitment to quality is much lower and their investments is therefore much lower.
Hey, since everybody else steal, that makes it okay. That's all I have to say about that.