StefanHaynes
Well-known member
I've revised it enough to be mildly proud of it, but it's still loaded with problems.
I'd greatly appreciate any and all suggestions.
I'd greatly appreciate any and all suggestions.
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Boogie Nights-esque script short script needs a fresh pair of eyes.
- Thread starter StefanHaynes
- Start date
Format's there, glad to see that! Thoughts--
1) Even for an obvious adult rating, the dialogue seems a little too unrealistic between a parent and offspring. No matter how strong the disconnect is, I can't ever see a father talking to his daughter like that. Disowned or what have you. I think it feels a little heavy handed and inappropriate, even for the direction.
2) The epiphany feels a little weak. There's no real reason for the offpsring (Emmy) to hate her mother. She just suddenly does without a reason ever showing up in the script. At this point the mother is actually a useless character, and can be omitted completely from anything other than the beginning. The story isn't about her, it's about the Father and Daughter.
3) On about the story itself. There's something there that can be used, I don't feel like this is from an adult perspective. You compare it to Boogie Nights, that movie is definitely from an adult perspective and handles (in the writing) the theme of "pornography" in a very mature fashion. This feels like the father is actually still a child himself, and the daughter has yet to mature enough as well. Even by the end of the story that still doesn't seem to change enough.
4) I kinda feel like it's forcing itself to be "adult". Not only by using the language in dialogue, but because you use the language in scene and action description. That's a little much, coming from one writer to another. I don't mind your writing style, aside from the continous use of the word PENSIVE. I know power words are sellers, try to mix it up a little maybe?
It's not bad at all, I just wonder if the direction might be new for you? Something you haven't done before? Could definitely use a fresh take on the subject matter, but that's my thought.
And in the end: What do I know?
1) Even for an obvious adult rating, the dialogue seems a little too unrealistic between a parent and offspring. No matter how strong the disconnect is, I can't ever see a father talking to his daughter like that. Disowned or what have you. I think it feels a little heavy handed and inappropriate, even for the direction.
2) The epiphany feels a little weak. There's no real reason for the offpsring (Emmy) to hate her mother. She just suddenly does without a reason ever showing up in the script. At this point the mother is actually a useless character, and can be omitted completely from anything other than the beginning. The story isn't about her, it's about the Father and Daughter.
3) On about the story itself. There's something there that can be used, I don't feel like this is from an adult perspective. You compare it to Boogie Nights, that movie is definitely from an adult perspective and handles (in the writing) the theme of "pornography" in a very mature fashion. This feels like the father is actually still a child himself, and the daughter has yet to mature enough as well. Even by the end of the story that still doesn't seem to change enough.
4) I kinda feel like it's forcing itself to be "adult". Not only by using the language in dialogue, but because you use the language in scene and action description. That's a little much, coming from one writer to another. I don't mind your writing style, aside from the continous use of the word PENSIVE. I know power words are sellers, try to mix it up a little maybe?
It's not bad at all, I just wonder if the direction might be new for you? Something you haven't done before? Could definitely use a fresh take on the subject matter, but that's my thought.
And in the end: What do I know?
Jason Ramsey
Admin
My biggest thing would be Kholi's #2 in his post. I agree with that completely, and even wonder if it might make the relationship between father and daughter a bit more dynamic and tense if there is no mother at all. I don't get her point. I'm just missing entirely why she hates her mother, and am not seeing what the mother is doing at all to push the story along. I'd almost rather them make reference to her, rather than her be an actual character in the script.
Maybe the mother is dead? Divorced? Dead gives other options. Did she binge herself to death when she found out about her daughter? Her Husband? Is that a point of argument between father and daughter? Which one is responsible for their mother's binge/suicide.... whatever. I don't know. Just saying. The mother has no purpose for me in the script that I saw, and the daughters hatred for her seems completely unfounded. You've obviously set up that this is quite a dysfunctional family just under the surface, so there are plenty of options that won't seem too out there, if you can make the story on the whole come across as not too out there.
Which would make me think of one add'l point. The content itself is already off the wall. I wouldn't try to help that along anymore. You almost have to work against it in order for the story to be able to play. Otherwise, it will run the risk of just becoming completely silly, rather than a compelling look at a unique family situation/relationship. If you color it up too much, I think you will run that risk. The content is already out there, so I would almost encourage you to work against it in the writing of your dialogue, etc.
Thanks for sharing your work.
Later,
Jason
Maybe the mother is dead? Divorced? Dead gives other options. Did she binge herself to death when she found out about her daughter? Her Husband? Is that a point of argument between father and daughter? Which one is responsible for their mother's binge/suicide.... whatever. I don't know. Just saying. The mother has no purpose for me in the script that I saw, and the daughters hatred for her seems completely unfounded. You've obviously set up that this is quite a dysfunctional family just under the surface, so there are plenty of options that won't seem too out there, if you can make the story on the whole come across as not too out there.
Which would make me think of one add'l point. The content itself is already off the wall. I wouldn't try to help that along anymore. You almost have to work against it in order for the story to be able to play. Otherwise, it will run the risk of just becoming completely silly, rather than a compelling look at a unique family situation/relationship. If you color it up too much, I think you will run that risk. The content is already out there, so I would almost encourage you to work against it in the writing of your dialogue, etc.
Thanks for sharing your work.
Later,
Jason
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Jason Ramsey
Admin
Just want to add a couple of other quick thoughts...
Maybe the reason for this meeting... the reason the two are together again is for the funeral of the mother (whatever happened to her... she's just not in the picture). The setting at the dinner table and all is still the same, but it takes needless exchange with the mother out of the picture and allows for more opportunity to delve into the unique relationship of these two characters. That's what the story is really about. And instead of the father spouting off all of these profane things about his daughter and her career choice, maybe he can't really say those things. It is still his little girl that's gonna' be a great actress one day. She may be the one who finishes it for him... "What dad? Just say it... You're ashamed that I xxxxx.... What about you? I saw xxxx" I don't know... It just gives you the opportunity to tone it down a bit, and make the relationship a bit more deep and realistic. The father right now comes across like he should have a bottle of whiskey in his hand and used to slap her around and abuse her, and that's obviously not the history between the two. It's his little girl. He carries guilt for the career choice she has made b/c of his own past. The mother found out about her, and that was the beginning of her downfall, so he carries the blame for the mother's death, or whatever as well. And, of course, so does she.
Anyways, if you richen up the relationship between the father and daugther and play against the content in your delivery, I think it would help a lot. Focus on them coming to terms with their relationship with each other. That way, when you do get to the end, and she says "I do love you, dad"... It has a whole different meaning, rather than being followed up by an unprovoked venom spewing hatred towards her mother.
Later,
Jason
Maybe the reason for this meeting... the reason the two are together again is for the funeral of the mother (whatever happened to her... she's just not in the picture). The setting at the dinner table and all is still the same, but it takes needless exchange with the mother out of the picture and allows for more opportunity to delve into the unique relationship of these two characters. That's what the story is really about. And instead of the father spouting off all of these profane things about his daughter and her career choice, maybe he can't really say those things. It is still his little girl that's gonna' be a great actress one day. She may be the one who finishes it for him... "What dad? Just say it... You're ashamed that I xxxxx.... What about you? I saw xxxx" I don't know... It just gives you the opportunity to tone it down a bit, and make the relationship a bit more deep and realistic. The father right now comes across like he should have a bottle of whiskey in his hand and used to slap her around and abuse her, and that's obviously not the history between the two. It's his little girl. He carries guilt for the career choice she has made b/c of his own past. The mother found out about her, and that was the beginning of her downfall, so he carries the blame for the mother's death, or whatever as well. And, of course, so does she.
Anyways, if you richen up the relationship between the father and daugther and play against the content in your delivery, I think it would help a lot. Focus on them coming to terms with their relationship with each other. That way, when you do get to the end, and she says "I do love you, dad"... It has a whole different meaning, rather than being followed up by an unprovoked venom spewing hatred towards her mother.
Later,
Jason
StefanHaynes
Well-known member
My attempt was to give it an bizarre, individual feel. In re-reading it, I need to scale it back, I agree.
My original intention was to scale back the importance of the mother. This daughter does not love her mother, a fact the mother could not bring herself to realize. I just set this up to give a stronger interplay between the father and daughter. The major "epiphany" I suppose, is the realization the daughter and father do love each other, albeit not in orthodox ways. I think I need to do this differently though... hmmmm...
Indeed! Two children caught up in verbal interplay, similar to this short (not say my script is nearly on the same level. Far from it really.) Clearly, I need to have a third character with adult sensibility and reason. I must admit, I haven't actually seen Boogie Nights, though I am an Anderson fan. I previously titled the thread "Porno short script thread" but it was promptly deleted on pornography charges...
That's one of my (many) flaws, I'm still working on it. It's the Burroughs in me going ballistic.
Yes, I've never written about this subject before. This is my first large-dialog piece (I usually prefer images), so it's still really sketchy.
You know how to give damn good criticism, that's what you know. Thanks a lot. :dankk2:And in the end: What do I know?
Those are some excellent ideas. I agree, she's totally forced and merely under the "quirk" blanket right now. I think I'll just ax her entirely, figure out something actually interesting to do with her.
Indeed. Still working on it.
And thank you for taking the time to not only read, but comment. I Greatly appreciate it.
Stefan
I have a feeling you didn't vote for Mit Romney.
I agree with everything Kholi said.
It wasn't easy reading this you know. The language. My take on profanity is it adds very little to a story and risks alienating readers.
In addition to the profanity, the dialog seemed on the nose.
The plot turn of revealing the dad's history in porn felt forced.
The ending felt a bit pat too.
So, yeah I felt there was some artifice here but I think you've got skills and can overcome it. I'm thinking of that Hemingway quote about good writing being like an iceberg--with "90% of it below the surface." Or was it Eli Manning that said that?
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Btw, wouldn't Reese Witherspoon be perfect here?
I agree with everything Kholi said.
It wasn't easy reading this you know. The language. My take on profanity is it adds very little to a story and risks alienating readers.
In addition to the profanity, the dialog seemed on the nose.
The plot turn of revealing the dad's history in porn felt forced.
The ending felt a bit pat too.
So, yeah I felt there was some artifice here but I think you've got skills and can overcome it. I'm thinking of that Hemingway quote about good writing being like an iceberg--with "90% of it below the surface." Or was it Eli Manning that said that?
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Btw, wouldn't Reese Witherspoon be perfect here?
STYLZ
Well-known member
What was the dramatic need of the daughter? There really isn't one is there? Why did she come back? To by chance realize she loves her dad? To me this is just there. No real reason behind it. Why did you write this? Where did you get idea for it? Just curious. Yeah your format is good. You had some real good moments too(like when they were watching the younger emmy) I would definitely like to read another short script of yours.
I assumed it was to communicate, one way or another, that she was leaving porno. That was my interpretation at least.
STYLZ
Well-known member
Phone/letter/email. maybe
Why come all the way out to "communicate leaving porn" when the father had to ask when she was leaving?
You have a point. I think I agree. The motive needs adjusting.
Maybe the mother could be on her deathbed and the daughter is there to see her for the last time. And it's there that the porn thing is addressed.
Generally speaking, I have plausibility issue with the way the story is now.
StefanHaynes
Well-known member
A couple points I'd like to throw in:
- The piece is not realistic. At all. But realism does not imply quality; neither does stylized; it's merely how it's done. Clearly, I've not done it right yet...
- Regarding the mother, I intentionally left her character completely unexplained, since I feel it is not integral to the intention of the piece. The daughter hates her mother, do we really need to know why? In a feature length, sure. But here, I just don't see why it is necessary. There is a dead bond between them: the mother isn't fully aware, but the daughter sees no reason to even hold conversation with her mother, which is why she's so cold and sterile in her reactions to her. Falling out earlier maybe, "sour milk" as she says. Who knows.
- She has returned home for a variety of reasons, also not fully explained: 1) She hurt someone badly in one of her films (with a "nail file"). 2) Unfinished feelings toward her father. She wants to fully express her feelings about him, after their previous "Falling out" but once she's confronted with what she needs to say, the childishness her father had shown before (the very childishness that spawned the falling out) forces her to show dismay towards him once again.
- The swearing is insane, and quite a lot of it gratuitous. I apologize to all who had to read it. I do actually write without cursing, it has just become so ingrained into the characters I draw up, I can't help it. One of my many, many, many, things to fix in my writing.
As it stands, given the rather interesting response this has had so far, I will be writing two things in direct relation to this:
1) a slightly altered, more streamlined version of this script (still with the mother, the ridiculous dialog, etc...)
2) a completely rewritten from scratch story in which a girl in porn returns to her home after her mother has died in a freak accident. The father is not gay, nor has he acted in porn. The script will closely resemble the father-daughter interplay in the excellent film Hardcore.
This one will be grounded in intense realism, the relations of the two explored fully and realistically.
Thank you so much for the insights and assistance you all have given.
- The piece is not realistic. At all. But realism does not imply quality; neither does stylized; it's merely how it's done. Clearly, I've not done it right yet...
- Regarding the mother, I intentionally left her character completely unexplained, since I feel it is not integral to the intention of the piece. The daughter hates her mother, do we really need to know why? In a feature length, sure. But here, I just don't see why it is necessary. There is a dead bond between them: the mother isn't fully aware, but the daughter sees no reason to even hold conversation with her mother, which is why she's so cold and sterile in her reactions to her. Falling out earlier maybe, "sour milk" as she says. Who knows.
- She has returned home for a variety of reasons, also not fully explained: 1) She hurt someone badly in one of her films (with a "nail file"). 2) Unfinished feelings toward her father. She wants to fully express her feelings about him, after their previous "Falling out" but once she's confronted with what she needs to say, the childishness her father had shown before (the very childishness that spawned the falling out) forces her to show dismay towards him once again.
- The swearing is insane, and quite a lot of it gratuitous. I apologize to all who had to read it. I do actually write without cursing, it has just become so ingrained into the characters I draw up, I can't help it. One of my many, many, many, things to fix in my writing.
As it stands, given the rather interesting response this has had so far, I will be writing two things in direct relation to this:
1) a slightly altered, more streamlined version of this script (still with the mother, the ridiculous dialog, etc...)
2) a completely rewritten from scratch story in which a girl in porn returns to her home after her mother has died in a freak accident. The father is not gay, nor has he acted in porn. The script will closely resemble the father-daughter interplay in the excellent film Hardcore.
This one will be grounded in intense realism, the relations of the two explored fully and realistically.
Thank you so much for the insights and assistance you all have given.