Would I Get Lawsuits Hurled At Me For Doing This?

F

Fidelio

Active member
Hello,

I'm planning to make a short one minute student film that'll be distributed by DVD (but not for profit) and I'd need to use a modelling agency's name card in the film.

The agency's well known, but not internationally well known... I'm wondering if I can use it with some sort of fair use policy like people have brand name clothing or sodas or chips in the film and not be under any possible law suits.

Thanks,

Fidelio
 
Nobody here can give you a definite answer or would want to be responsible for the consequences should you follow our advice. Best thing to do is to consult an attorney. I recommend you read this article, which explains the situation rather well and in great detail, but STILL CONSULT AN ATTORNEY if you decide to go ahead:

http://www.microfilmmaker.com/tipstrick/Issue26/LegOnSet.html

The short version of it is that a holder of a trademark CAN sue you at any time for using their brand without permission. Fair use or not, you're the one who's stuck with the attorney's fee whether you win or lose. So just save yourself the hassel and don't do it.
 
Fidelio said:
Hello,

I'm planning to make a short one minute student film that'll be distributed by DVD (but not for profit) and I'd need to use a modelling agency's name card in the film.

The agency's well known, but not internationally well known... I'm wondering if I can use it with some sort of fair use policy like people have brand name clothing or sodas or chips in the film and not be under any possible law suits.

Thanks,

Fidelio
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Have you asked them for permission? They might say yes.
Fair Use is a can of worms but it DOES cover parody.
 
Hmm, I have yet to ask for permission as I am on a severe time constrain.

Furthermore, this being a one minute student short film to be made on no budget and then locally distributed in small volumes, I simply cannot afford to consult an attorney, you see... and though understanding your recommendations, doesn't that sound somewhat absurd?

I completely recognize the importance of doing things the "right way", but it just seems like an absurdly complicated and expensive process for something of this magnitude.
 
Fidelio said:
I completely recognize the importance of doing things the "right way", but it just seems like an absurdly complicated and expensive process for something of this magnitude.
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You're obviously concerned about getting sue or else you wouldn't have asked the question. No one here is going to advise you to go ahead and do it blindly just because it's a small project; if you get sue it's not going to do you much good to say "well, it's just a student film so I thought it'll be OK." The truth is you CAN get sue and you should be aware of the potential consequences.

A fake agency name is the best way to go.
 
I'll toss in a third for go with the fake name - better safe than sorry. Is it really that important it be the actual agency name if they arent that well known?
 
The short version of it is that a holder of a trademark CAN sue you at any time for using their brand without permission.

Only in the sense that anyone can (attempt to) sue anyone for anything at anytime.

Using the name, not just showing the name.
 
just do it. what are they going to sue you for? everything you have? you're a struggling film student!!! at the most they can prevent you from exhibiting it.
 
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GenJerDan said:
The short version of it is that a holder of a trademark CAN sue you at any time for using their brand without permission.

Only in the sense that anyone can (attempt to) sue anyone for anything at anytime.

Using the name, not just showing the name.
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Exactly. You never know what's going to motivate them to do it, whether they have a rational basis or not. You can't afford to go to court either way.

And they actually can sue you for showing the name if they believe that it's being used in a derogatory context. For example, your rapist character drinks Coke. Bam, potential lawsuit!
 
Fidelio said:
Hmm, I have yet to ask for permission as I am on a severe time constrain.

Furthermore, this being a one minute student short film to be made on no budget and then locally distributed in small volumes, I simply cannot afford to consult an attorney, you see... and though understanding your recommendations, doesn't that sound somewhat absurd?

I completely recognize the importance of doing things the "right way", but it just seems like an absurdly complicated and expensive process for something of this magnitude.
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As others have pointed out, the question remains, why does it have to be a real modeling agency? Just make up a name and stop worrying about it. Student films are exercises - even if the assignment was to shoot a documentary about the modeling industry, from an educational standpoint it shouldn't matter if it's a real agency or not. Just make up the agency and your "facts" about them as you go along, after all Fox does it every day <grin>.
 
Is there an unavoidable reason to show that modeling company's name?
If not as everyone stated go with a fake one similar to the one you are faking.
 
Spend the fifteen bucks and makeup a fake modelling agency with vistaprint business cards. It's good to make it a habit to do things the right way, especially when it comes to copyright. Spike Lee didn't have permission to use a Chicago Bulls hat in a scene in Jungle Fever. The Bulls didn't want Sam Jackson's crackhead character wearing the hat and associating the Bulls brand with drug use. So Spike reshot.

If you're shooting outside and you happen to see big name brands in the background, you can get away with it. But closeups or featuring it to make a point in a film will get you in trouble.

The chances of a company seeing your one-minute film may be small, but if you want your film in festivals and to get seen or sold will raise your chances of getting caught later on.
 
Generally, you can use trademarks in films as a matter of public policy. A character drinking coke or Heineken is fine for instance. As long as the product is being used as intended and it is in no way cast in a negative light. Fair use involves copyright, not trademark.

People fall into problems when they use a trademark as part of a story, ie: the coca cola poisons someone. Then there is concern for trade libel. this is not copyright infringement.


If there is unique art on the card beyond the trademark, then copyright may apply.

Generally if the card is part of the story and not set dressing, I wouldn't use it.
 
If you want to sell your film and even if the film isn't casting the product in a negative light you will need permission. There's a reason why a lot of bottles are turned around in films.
 
bosindy said:
Generally, you can use trademarks in films as a matter of public policy. A character drinking coke or Heineken is fine for instance. As long as the product is being used as intended and it is in no way cast in a negative light. Fair use involves copyright, not trademark.

People fall into problems when they use a trademark as part of a story, ie: the coca cola poisons someone. Then there is concern for trade libel. this is not copyright infringement.


If there is unique art on the card beyond the trademark, then copyright may apply.

Generally if the card is part of the story and not set dressing, I wouldn't use it.
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You're dreaming, amigo. Real movies have people that work on them whose job doesn't involve anything but covering up trademarks.

I once had a label on my blue jeans covered in gaff tape when I had to fill in for a missing featured extra. It's the real deal and those guys don't screw around.
 
Because they're idiots. Or, more likely, the people they work for are idiots and they've been able to talk them into paying them to turn bottles around. SHOWING A TRADE MARK is NOT Trade Mark infringement.

Also: they turn bottles around, etc. so they companies who've paid money for product placement don't get pissed that someone else is getting it for free.
 
GenJerDan said:
Also: they turn bottles around, etc. so they companies who've paid money for product placement don't get pissed that someone else is getting it for free.
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Yes. And its also distracting. It kinda takes you out of the scene when you are studying products to see if they are using pepsi or lucky charms.
 
GenJerDan said:
Because they're idiots. Or, more likely, the people they work for are idiots and they've been able to talk them into paying them to turn bottles around. SHOWING A TRADE MARK is NOT Trade Mark infringement.

Also: they turn bottles around, etc. so they companies who've paid money for product placement don't get pissed that someone else is getting it for free.
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erm.....these were on $20M plus features with A listers. And it happens quite frequenltly in that league. If they do it, so will I. After all, they are doing it for a reason, not because they are "idiots". Maybe you oughta get on one of those sets one day and see for yourself.
 
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