Should I upgrade from the Canon AH-A1 to the Sony EX1?

[Wendt]

I know there are many advantages that the EX1 has over the A1, such as 720P, Variable frame rates, Full 1920 x 1080, Better lenses, Tape less work flow etc… I would like to start doing more narrative/ Filmic work so I am planning on getting Letus Extreme. Here are a few things I could use your expertise on:

1) It sounds like 35 mm adapter owners are able to pull focus with the EX1 without an eternal monitor. Is this easy to do or will most EX1 users still use an external monitor for adapter work? If EX1 user will not need an external monitor then the price difference between the cameras can be shortened by $800- $1500.

2) How important is uncompressed sound? My understanding is that the A1 has compressed sound and the EX1 does not. I remember that this was a big deal when the HVX came out? Is it still a big deal? Or is it one of those things that people really do not notice?

3) The next thing is the codec. Could someone who has both cameras comment on this. I know HDV is not the best codec to do color correction or grading, but Canon seems to do better than all the other HDV flavors out there. I know that the EX1 with its 35MB vs the A1 25MB HDV should be better, but is there a noticeable difference when it comes to grading?

4) Are there any problems with Sony Vegas and the EX1? Does it support the 1920 x 1080? Right now there is a problem(capture problem, memory problem) with the A1 and Sony Vegas, but Sony is working on it and there are some ways around the problem.

Thanks for your response,
David

 

[ffaf07]

there are many advantages that the EX1 has over the A1

Variable frame rates

Full 1920 x 1080

Better lenses

Tape less work flow

First off, you said it here. But I'd be happy to answer your questions.

1) The LCD on the EX1 is 1920 vertical lines (That's FULL HD) by 480 horizontal lines (Full SD; the same number of lines as a television.) So pulling focus is much much easier than with most LCDs, and with some practice and knowhow you would rue the day you used an external monitor.

2)Uncompressed sound makes a huge difference. And an important one. People sometimes get too involved with video quality, but it doesn't matter in the narrative world without excellent sound quality.

3) I would suggest you check out Philip Bloom's work, which is apparently heavily graded, but I couldn't answer this one from experience.

4) I'm about 104% sure that Vegas can handle the Sony footage. What's also important is your actual editing suite.

 

[Barry_Green]

1) The LCD on the EX1 is 1920 vertical lines

No it isn't. The LCD on the EX1 is 640 x 480.

 

[Elton]

1) It sounds like 35 mm adapter owners are able to pull focus with the EX1 without an eternal monitor. Is this easy to do or will most EX1 users still use an external monitor for adapter work?

The EX1's LCD is much sharper and higher res than the A1's and basically any other budget HD camera. Yet it's not just the LCD; the focus assist functions are much better so the two combined will pretty much be all that you need.

2) How important is uncompressed sound? My understanding is that the A1 has compressed sound and the EX1 does not. I remember that this was a big deal when the HVX came out? Is it still a big deal? Or is it one of those things that people really do not notice?

This is another non-issue. Of course true uncompressed is preferable, but HDV audio works just fine in reality. It's not heavily compressed like the video is, but If you need the absolute best possible sound quality for acquisition you should consider going dual-system.

3) The next thing is the codec. Could someone who has both cameras comment on this. I know HDV is not the best codec to do color correction or grading, but Canon seems to do better than all the other HDV flavors out there. I know that the EX1 with its 35MB vs the A1 25MB HDV should be better, but is there a noticeable difference when it comes to grading?

The difference is negligible if you grade in a better quality intermediate codec. (CineForm, ProRes, etc) If you do native codec grading, the XDCAM HQ codec is slightly better, but neither are truly preferable for serious grading.

4) Are there any problems with Sony Vegas and the EX1? Does it support the 1920 x 1080? Right now there is a problem(capture problem, memory problem) with the A1 and Sony Vegas, but Sony is working on it and there are some ways around the problem.

Thanks for your response,
David

I'm a Final Cut guy, so I have no idea. There shouldn't be any capture problems with the EX1 because it isn't tape-based. I'm not sure how good the integration is but I would think that Sony should do a good job of supporting the EX1's mp4 format.

 

[BobDiaz]

No it isn't. The LCD on the EX1 is 640 x 480.

The specification in the user manual is: 640h x 3 (RGB) x 480v delta sequence.

In a delta sequence, each sub-pixel (R, G, or B) can be turned on or off independently of the other sub-pixels. In addition, each row is offset by 1/2 a sub-pixel and every red sits above every blue/green sub-pixel.

So, if we are talking full RGB sequence, then it's 640h, but if we count it from a sub pixel level, it's 640h x 3(R, G, or B) = 1920 total.

http://www.solomon-systech.com/pdf/APN_GC_001_v010.pdf

See page 3.


Bob Diaz

 

[Wendt]

Thanks for the infomation,

This is a great help. Is there is someone else who has experiece with both cameras that would like to add there thoughts? It seems there are some conflicting views so hearing from others will help. It looks like I need to research the audio part a little more. Does anyone know of any good resources?

Thanks,

David

 

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Interesting.

But, no one has addressed his question.


Is it worth the upgrade? $3500?

 

[TimurCivan]

The EX1's LCD is much sharper and higher res than the A1's and basically any other budget HD camera. Yet it's not just the LCD; the focus assist functions are much better so the two combined will pretty much be all that you need.

Elton... you mah Boy. But seriously, You need a 1920x1080 monitor when youre pulling focus. even a 720p monitor wont really do. when using 35mm lenses, like an 85mm F1.2 or a 105mm F2.0 there is literally 3/4" of DOF at a standard close up. Every millimeter of accuracy is absolutly neccesary. YOU NEED A REAL MONITOR. Plain and simple. Just cause teh EX's is slightly better than the A1 doesnt mean you need to forgo a VERY neccesdary tool like a production monitor.

 

[Elton]

Agreed, Timur. I think you've misinterpreted my response, though.

I fully agree that for discerning focus with absolute certainty-- a full resolution (1920x1080) monitor is truly needed--ESPECIALLY when using a 35 adapter and shooting with ultra-narrow DOF.

Now, what I was trying to answer in that post is what I interpreted from his question about needing "an external monitor". I think that for most indie shooters, that means a Marshall or Ikan, etc. In which case I think the EX1's LCD is basically equal in effectiveness for discerning focus, even when using an adapter.

Just cause teh EX's is slightly better than the A1 doesnt mean you need to forgo a VERY neccesdary tool like a production monitor.

I don't think the EX1's LCD is merely "slightly" better than the A1. It's leagues better, but certainly nothing compared to a real HD production monitor, but is that something you can lug around with you or attach to the camera and monitor true 1080 resolution?

 

[TimurCivan]

Oh ok. I just love my marshall cause its big.

 

[gaffney film]

Elton... you mah Boy. But seriously, You need a 1920x1080 monitor when youre pulling focus. even a 720p monitor wont really do. when using 35mm lenses, like an 85mm F1.2 or a 105mm F2.0 there is literally 3/4" of DOF at a standard close up. Every millimeter of accuracy is absolutly neccesary. YOU NEED A REAL MONITOR. Plain and simple. Just cause teh EX's is slightly better than the A1 doesnt mean you need to forgo a VERY neccesdary tool like a production monitor.

Or a tape measure, a decent follow focus, and a few marks.

To answer your question, I have an XLH1 and just got the EX1 two days ago. The Canon will be going away.

 

[ESTEBEVERDE]

From Mooho Bae @ moohobae.com

EX1 AQUARIUM FOOTAGE

"mode : SP 1080 24P.
Pull-down Removal : NEOHDV(cineform)
Edit : Premere Pro 2.0"

XH A1 AQUARIUM FOOTAGE

" Settings: 24F, CP=panalook, NR1 low, LR2 Low, The color temperature was adjusted clip by clip.

Edited with Premiere pro 2.0, and down sizing, noise reduction and sharpen was done in AVISynth. Many thanks to the developers of various free AVISynth tools, really cool!"


.

 

[ichichich]

Last link is not working ;-)

 

[DeeZiD]

Maybe he meant this clip?
http://www.moohobae.com/mine/Coex_Aquarium_edit_720P-1.wmv



I think there's not such a big difference between these cameras when downsized to 720p.
Although there are much more chromatic abberations in the A1 material.

And highlights seem to blow out very strangely in EX1 material. :shocked:
(Something to worry about? Have seen this in another EX1 clip, too!)


regards Dennis

 

[Carl]

I have the Canon XLH1; love it and need the CANON L 20x IS 39-780mm lens (+ 1,6 extender sometimes )
and the Canon is a clear winner, no match out there.

Even the Canon XLH1 have a weaker "monitor"/ viewfinder, but what I get on the tape with the Custom presets
still just blow me away! Love the filmic look :thumbsup:
Though the Sony seems to have really nice recording specs...but..Sony EX1= tele max at 439mm
Then the codec does not matter...

Interesting time...

 

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I want the EX1 but in the 720p footage I linked to above I like the Canon XH A1 images.

It's a tough call as there is so much to weigh.

I would like to see more 1080 footage.

 

[reem12]

for some reason in that aquarium footage the canon a1 looked better to me to.the canon a1 has a sharp and clean picturte to begin with.

 

[philip bloom]

i have shot all my letus extreme shorts without a monitor, using just the lcd screen. It's not only the best lcd screen on a budget camera, it's the best on any camera i have ever come across.

Yes a nice marshall is ideal, but if you want to be lightweight and still get focus the ex1 screen is amazing

 

[Morpheus_23]

Interesting.

But, no one has addressed his question.


Is it worth the upgrade? $3500?

I haven't seen anything yet from the EX-1 that would cause me to go from the HVX200.

Canon has implemented a fine HDV codec and the XHA1 can produce amazing imagery.
All of these sub 10000 cameras have pros and cons including the EX1.

 

[DCSensui]

Regarding field monitors, a dealer here showed me an intriguing solution:

He had an HD Link from Blackmagic Designs connected to an Apple Cinema Display. The EX1 was connected to the HD Link via the HD SDI cable.

The result was a full-res 1920-pixel display.

Also interesting: Because the monitor takes power via the HD Link, and because the HD Link gets its power from a 5-volt DC power supply, it would be possible to build a battery-powered setup with this. Draws 2 amps at 5 volts for a power draw of 10 watts.