has letus changed the face of the indi market.

reem12

reem12

Veteran
I've been wondering for some time now if anyone believes the letus company has put any added preasure on the 35mm adapter market in terms of sales declining.technology is so tricky that some genious can come along with an ideal that will completely monopolize a whole market, but someone else will come along soon after they've done all the hard labor and take the concept to the next level, leaving those who did all the laboring with a warehouse of outdated stock that has not changed along with the increasing demands of a high speed society.one example is,the introduction of color tvs vs. the old black and white.another argument was the introduction of digital based recording over the old analog based recording.and sure we could argue day in and day out that analog was far superior and pleasing to the ear but if your marketing a product to keep food on the table your views on how superior analog is over digital goes strait out the window if digital is what the market is calling for.i guess what i'm saying is, as each generation comes along the tastes and needs change.but as the price of black and white tvs were dramaticly reduced at the inception of color tvs,so should be that of any other outdated technology.now that brings me back to the subject at hand.how much of an impact do you think the more light efficent and flip capable adapter of the letus company is having on some of it's oudated counter parts.and don't get me wrong i'm not saying that letus is the mole because, as soon as the next genious comes along with the same adapter but modified to stop down to an f12 with no grain i'm sure their sales will be altered just like the rest.i guess it's all about who gets there first.so a bit of advice to all the future 35mm adapter creaters.in order to stay succesful in a market thats as ficle and high speed as this one you will half to listne to the wants and needs of the majority of those who will feed you and lay aside your own private convictions on what your wants are and give the end user what they requestat at a competitive price .as i stated previously.if your product is not updated your pricing should also reflect so.unless your rich and have money to throw around for name brand then your probably like me, an indi filmaker who seeks deals on products that perform just as well if not better than the high priced name brand with a few of the needed perks such as a quick and easy workflow for people who use there investments to make money.

ps.time is money and most don't have time to sit around their computers to wait on hours of footage to be rendered because they captured upside down.
 
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The Le brothers have changed EXPECTATIONS. Now, I expect every new adapter that ever comes to market to be pre-flipped. I expect every company to handle their customers with just as much care as the Le brothers, that means sitting online, phone, etc.

I expect BUILD quality to be as good as the Letus: comfortably tank-like. Lower light loss than competitors, edge-to-edge sharpness (Please see: What a nice piece of glass!? Glass makes the difference), and overall image creation. I expect companies to conduct themselves with efficiency just as the Le brothers have, that goes as far as kicking out a product in a TIMELY manner, and constantly improving the product with new requests.

We've already got all of our mounts (I know you Canon people are in love with the Canon mount), We've got an entirely Letus specific rail application as promised, a Letus Mini applicative item, and the list keeps growing and growing and getting better and better.

And now they're aligned with B&H selling their products, makin' it a widespread deal.

Everyone needs to get on the ball, these guys are killin it.

You change Expectations, you change a market.
 
Exactly, Kholi.

Is the Letus Extreme the end all to 35mm adapters? No, but at the moment it is a highly competitive product. I'm not sure what reem12 was trying to say, but from the sound of it he is bitter about having outdated equipment?

Technology moves fast, friend. The LEX is one of the best on the market right now. In a year we'll probably be going crazy about the Letus Revolution Enhanced Mk. II.

Reem got one thing right. The next advancement for adapters is to stop down to f/8+, lose less than 1/2 stop, and flip the image. Until then, the LEX will have to do, and believe me - it does well.
 
thanks dx metal,for heasds up on my illiteracy.just kidding.trust me if i'm going to a job interview writting along with language steps up to corparate level but as for now if the posts are to unbaramle to read when you see reem12 no hard feelings in you skipping past it.now for the rest of you boys and girls i think you were intellegent enough to desipher through the post to understand that as koli mentioned unless the quality,customer service, edge sharpness,and good old fasioned concern for the end user is far superior than that of letus i would expect a drastic drop in sales for the competion.point being.i didn't particularly fork over $1200 because i'm friends with the letus company but like anyone else there was a major gap in my work flow such as light efficency and letus met that need along with other perks i didn't expect such as an image thats as sharp as it is without sacrificing what we all strive for in these adapters and thats beautiful depth of feild.again my plea to the other adapter companys still ponding off old technology,reduce your prices to reflect it.and again if anther company exceeds the qualities of letus that i mentioned while offering more i'm sure letus will wind up in the same boat as other companys that kept us forking over $1000s of dollars over the last couple of years without remotely hinting at a flip option until letus brought us relief.with saying all this i think letus will be around far longer than we think due to the fact they've not made promises at nab and not delivered but have made promises directly to the little guys like us and have delivered on most of them in matter of weeks.i always say at crunch time your your able to see if a person is with you or are they mainly concerned with their pockets.i believe letus is concerned without sacrifising their pockets also.
 
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When (not If) the RED Mini comes out that allows you to use SLR or cine lenses, and assuming with MSRP of less than $10k coupled with 4k (optimistic) or 2k (pessimistic) resolution, a lot of us, semi pro-indie filmmakers will be on that bandwagon. With it, a large chunk of the 35mm adapter market will be forever gone.

What would be left in the aftermath ? The market left would be ..

- The 2/3" eng crowd.
- The below $3000 market. But the price has to be under $1k

Which are already started to be tapped by the smart guys at Letus.

With the demise of the old market, new opportunity will be opened up.

- Electronic smart lens mount (e.g Briger) that allows the manual adjustment of aperture for modern 35mm SLR lenses.
- Rehousing and repacking of 35mm SLR lenses to cine lenses style.
 
I am not commenting on your english or literacy. I know that we are an international community here on this forum.

But your lack of paragraphing, capitalization of first letter of new sentence, space after each sentense, just made your post incredibly HARD TO READ. You obviously have good idea and articulation of thoughts that others will appreciate. Unfortunately, your "format" might turned a lot of potential readers away.

BTW, I tried to read your whole post but quit on sentence 3 due to frustration.
 
Got a little time to kill, so I'm going to edit this masterpiece...

Before:

reem12 said:
I've been wondering for some time now if anyone believes the letus company has put any added preasure on the 35mm adapter market in terms of sales declining.technology is so tricky that some genious can come along with an ideal that will completely monopolize a whole market, but someone else will come along soon after they've done all the hard labor and take the concept to the next level, leaving those who did all the laboring with a warehouse of outdated stock that has not changed along with the increasing demands of a high speed society.one example is,the introduction of color tvs vs. the old black and white.another argument was the introduction of digital based recording over the old analog based recording.and sure we could argue day in and day out that analog was far superior and pleasing to the ear but if your marketing a product to keep food on the table your views on how superior analog is over digital goes strait out the window if digital is what the market is calling for.i guess what i'm saying is, as each generation comes along the tastes and needs change.but as the price of black and white tvs were dramaticly reduced at the inception of color tvs,so should be that of any other outdated technology.now that brings me back to the subject at hand.how much of an impact do you think the more light efficent and flip capable adapter of the letus company is having on some of it's oudated counter parts.and don't get me wrong i'm not saying that letus is the mole because, as soon as the next genious comes along with the same adapter but modified to stop down to an f12 with no grain i'm sure their sales will be altered just like the rest.i guess it's all about who gets there first.so a bit of advice to all the future 35mm adapter creaters.in order to stay succesful in a market thats as ficle and high speed as this one you will half to listne to the wants and needs of the majority of those who will feed you and lay aside your own private convictions on what your wants are and give the end user what they requestat at a competitive price .as i stated previously.if your product is not updated your pricing should also reflect so.unless your rich and have money to throw around for name brand then your probably like me, an indi filmaker who seeks deals on products that perform just as well if not better than the high priced name brand with a few of the needed perks such as a quick and easy workflow for people who use there investments to make money.

ps.time is money and most don't have time to sit around their computers to wait on hours of footage to be rendered because they captured upside down.
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After:

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I wonder if Letus has been putting pressure on their competition. Leading-edge technology is such that some genius can come along with an idea that completely monopolizes a whole market, then someone else will come along and take the concept to the next level. Those who did it first can find themselves with with a warehouse of outdated stock. An example was the introduction of color TV. Another was digital audio. We could argue day in and day out that analog was more pleasing to the ear, but if you're in the audio business, your views on analog vs digital might go straight out the window once digital is what the market calls for.

I guess what I'm saying is, tastes and needs will change. Just as black and white TVs disappeared when color came in, so should any outdated technology. That brings me back to my point:

How much impact do you think Letus's more light efficent, flip-corrected adapter is having on its competitors? Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that Letus is the be-all-end-all; when another adapter comes along that can stop down to f12 with no grain I'm sure their sales will be affected too. I guess it's about who gets there first.

So a bit of advice to future 35mm adapter creators: listen to what your customers say, and lay aside your own private convictions; give them what they want at a competitive price. If your product is outdated, then maybe your pricing should reflect that. We're people just like you - indie filmakers who use our investments to make money.

PS: Waiting hours for footage to be rendered because it was captured upside down is not my idea of fun...
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There you go...much better, no?

PS: I hope reem12 doesn't hate me now ; )
 
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i'm sorry dxmetal for misunderstanding your satement concerning my lack of punctiation and other errors concerning the formatting of my post, and i see that you've come back a second time, so i do believe that you were able to get the basics of what i was trying to say.forgive me all for the formatting of my post but i have 4 kids and alot of other things that i juggle between participating in this wonderful and very informative site, but writting structure is just not on the top of my priorities.now with having said that. hopefuly were done with comments that do not pertaine to this post and back to the subject at hand such as letus corporation changing the game ,and forcing manufactures to stop skimming and update these fossils.if letus has not done anything else for the indi community we owe them for forcing the hand of others to play fair or get out the game.and yes trudd,forgive me but you are correct in saying my bitterness stems from companies that try to keep us locked in to outdated techcnoloy when having full knowedge on how to solve the solution but holding it back to squeeze the poor indi's for as much money as the can before offering what they should have giving us along time ago.i hope this is not sounding to harsh but i not only hope letus is soon rewarded for their dedication to the little guys, but i hope they put those who've made broken promises only to string us along out of buisness.i'm sory for this being so vague,but even though i don't use the brevis dennis of brevis company would be the exception to alot of this post.i just wish when everone makes promise and give dates that they be reliable and most of all truthful cause in the end it can come back and haunt you.
 
Dxmetal said:
BTW, I tried to read your whole post but quit on sentence 3 due to frustration.
Click to expand...

I had the same experience...
So I decided to be proactive.

Here you go, hopefully this helps:

Reem12 (sort of) said:
Thanks DXmetal, for the heads up on my illiteracy. Just kidding.
Trust me, if I'm going to a job interview, then writing (along with language) steps up to corporate level. But for now if the posts are too unbearable to read when you see "reem12" no hard feelings in you skip past it.

Now, for the rest of you boys and girls, I think you were intelligent enough to decypher the post to understand that, as Kholi mentioned, unless the quality, customer service, edge sharpness, and good old fashioned concern for the end user is far superior than that of Letus, I would expect a drastic drop in sales for the competition.

Poing being, I didn't particularly fork over $1200 because I'm friends with the Letus company but, like anyone else, there was a major gap in my workflow (such as light efficency). Letus met that need along with other perks I didn't expect, such as an image that's as sharp as it is without sacrificing what we all strive for in these adapters and that's beautiful depth of field.

Again, my plea to the other adapter companies that are still pawning off old technology is, 'reduce your prices to reflect it'. And again, if another company exceeds the qualities of Letus that I mentioned, while offering more, I'm sure Letus will wind up in the same boat as these other companies that kept us forking over $1000s of dollars over the last couple of years without remotely hinting at a flip option (until Letus brought us relief).

I think Letus will be around far longer than we think due to the fact they've not made promises at NAB and not delivered, but have made promises directly to the little guys like us and have delivered on most of them in a matter of weeks. I always say at crunch time you're able to see if a person is with you or if are they mainly concerned with their pockets. I believe Letus is concerned without sacrificing their pockets also.
Click to expand...
 
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ted, that was a very admirable thing you did and i'm completely ok with correction and criticism done only out of love and respect just as you did.
 
Apparently you guys were doing the same thing I was as I was posting.
:)

EDITED TO ADD:
Actually Ted, that worked out well - you did the first post while I did the second.
 
Letus had done what companies like Panasonic and others have done. They Listened to the consumers and produced a product with a feature set the consumers needed at a price that was fair and accessible. Does anyone remember the early days of small 3ccd DV cameras, when people were posting on forums "dream features" like XLR inputs, Phantom power and a an EVF that could be color or monochrome? These are now standard features on any small camera.
Letus has done a great thing, but at its core it is a simple mind set the some larger companies still have problems with...Give the people what they want at a price they can afford. Thats what helped Panny outsell Canon in the DVX 100 days. It is also what caused people to pay for a "reservation" just to buy a RED CAM.

No doubt the Le Brothers read the posts on this board about the shortcomings of the Flip FE and responded with Extreme.

Hats of to Letus...They have seen the adapter world into a tail spin.
 
Think outside the box guys.

Someone at Sony, Canon or Panasonic, at some point will take note of the Brevis/Letus/SGPro revolution and will divine that shallow depth of field with real manual control lenses is at least of minor importance to a large amount of DVX/HVX/EX/XLH1 users. They will figure out that if they can introduce a camcorder with built in shallow depth of field without it being a hacked together two foot long kluge of lens adapters, brackets, rails, etc., the camera will sell very well.

I am still convinced that an engineering team, if charged with this task, will come up with a very clever, small and inexpensive way of building this into the camera. At some point, we will fondly look back on a Letus/Brevis/SGP rigs as modern antiques. Do you see the trend? In the era of DV camcorders, the DVX-100a was the Holy Grail with 24p, XLRs, quality audio section, Cine Gammas.

Then, the HVX-200 and EX-1, both excellent HD versions of the same design specs (XLRs, 24p, Cine Gammas, etc.)

I think that in inexpensive camcorders, the next step will be an electronic or optical process that will allow creative control of depth of field in a small 1/3 or 1/2" chip camcorder. Combine all of this with all of the HVX/EX-1 great features and that camera will rule the roost. I would buy it, regardless of if it were a Sony or a Panasonic.

Our cameras with the 35mm adapters work great, but mine and most of them are too long, unbalanced and ungainly. The cameras really become a film camera, which is great, but also limits shooting to having someone to pull focus when doing complex moves, limited mobility for handheld and you also have the kluge factor of making all of this disparate gear work with each other.

What if Panasonic or Sony introduced an HVX-300 or PMW-EX2 with the ability to offer shallow depth of field in he same footprint as an HVX-200 or PMW-EX1? Wouldn't you be interested?

I hope that I am right, this could be the next battle for the lower end of HD camcorders, the market seems to think so. Read any review of any sub-$10,000.00 HD camcorder and the limited light ability, noise and infinite depth of field with small chips is always mentioned. Who would have thought we would have a $5,000.00 camcorder that used the same codec and more variable speeds than Panasonics (at the time) top of the line Varicam? The manufacturers are not as afraid of poaching high-end features for their low end offerings as they used to be.

Dan
 
dont forget JVC has a in house 35 adapter of sorts. They are listening.

I think when REDmini or whatever the next gen camera that comes out is, it will take a bite out of 35 adpter sales, but whose to say the next big thing wont be Low cost high volume cinema lenses. ???? Red NEEDS to make them, because the market for Zeiss' and Cookes is so thin right now. the Red boom has created a vacuum in the high quality 35mm format lens world. This isnt to say you cant find them, just that their prices have skyrocketed. Same with Nikon manual lenses, and Canon Manual lenses. they are about 25% more expensive now than they were before because of the 35 adapter boom.
 
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