Why are Indie films often so poorly made?

[Jim Brennan]

I know that every once in a while there is a small indie film that breaks out. But if your experience is anything like mine, most of the indies I have seen never get to see the light of day. I know that part of this is financial, but without sounding like an a jerk, it's also because most of them aren't very good.

What makes them not good?

I think a big part of it is a lack of planning. I personally think that too many films are rushed into production before the script is ready. Objective, professional opinions are usually not even sought out. Pre production as a whole is spotty at best, settling for what is easily accessible in almost every area.

Bad acting is another issue. Not only do many indies cast from what is available locally and cheap (or free), but they aren't really aware of what makes a good performance, or how to get one.

Insufficient technical skill becomes painfully obvious in bad audio, out of focus or poorly framed shots, bad lighting, shaky camera movement, and continuity errors.

Overall poor production value is more nebulous, but can include no sense of art direction, cliched or boring camera movement (or lack thereof), and inappropriate sound FX or music.

I think this is topped off by a filmmaker doing too much themselves. They produce, write, direct, DP, edit, etc. Not only does taking on too many jobs dilute your ability to do one or two well, it negates possible outside, objective influences that can improve the quality of the film.

Alot of these things can be avoided by having a chunk of money to plop down to hire pros, but most of us don't have that. We are in pre-pro for a low-mid six figure film and I want to avoid as many of the cliches of the indie world as possible.

So, I ask you, what do you see in indie films that puts them at a disadvantage in the marketplace? What are the repeated mistakes that most make?

 

[Eastside Parkway]

Lack of money and visibility I suppose

 

[HorseFilms]

The biggest thing that pisses me off with indie flicks is when they try to emulate whatever big budget, flash in the pan style is popular at that second (The Matrix, Saw, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, etc.). It's annoying and severely dates the flick. Plus, it shows that they're incapable of creating their own style.

 

[MalcolmOng]

I think that mistakes that you've listed are the most common ones, however, I think that's one of the reasons for the 'indie' genre. I'd say that alot of those issues arise due to that very reason you mentioned - the lack of money to do it properly. Most indie films as I see it are the darlings of people who have day jobs, etc, and can only work on it as a side project, rather than devoting all their time and effort to it like the crew of professional features.

In fact, to me a six figure budget even seems extravagent. If every indie feature had a budget in that region, you'd see the quality greatly improved. However the fact is, it isn't. Alot of indie features are made in the ballpark of like 10,000 bucks i believe? (i could be wrong here), but they definitely didn't have a low-mid six figure budget. So the fact is, while people here argue that story is king and all, sometimes budget doth maketh the film. You can have the greatest story in the world, but without proper actors or equipment to make such a vision possible, it just undermines everything. A budget can make good actors and equipment available to a filmmaker, but beyond that it's all up to director - He has no excuse then.

 

[MalcolmOng]

The biggest thing that pisses me off with indie flicks is when they try to emulate whatever big budget, flash in the pan style is popular at that second (The Matrix, Saw, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, etc.). It's annoying and severely dates the flick. Plus, it shows that they're incapable of creating their own style.

Horse, I totally agree with your point.


To add on to my previous post, there are always exceptions, but I'm just trying to generalise. I mean there are obviously great features out there that have been made on a hairstring budget.

 

[cinealma]

Of course, the bigger mystery is why are there so many crappy studio films? And they've got the money and the talent!

 

[Batutta]

The same reason most of anything sucks...lack of talent and skill.

 

[Jim Brennan]

Money problems can often be solved with proper planning.

I'm thinking more along the lines of Horse's comment: specific things you don't like about most of the indies you see. I'm even thinking of the ones that are done locally. We screen indie projects once a month here in Denver by local filmmakers.

 

[Batutta]

For something specific, I think poor pacing in scenes. Inexperienced actors tend to put a lot of pauses between their lines, drawing out the moments unnecessarily. This can be fixed in editing but often looks awkward.

 

[ugafan]

the biggest problem i see is poor writing. when your story just isn't that interesting, all the other problems become more obvious.

 

[Sad Max]

Of course, the bigger mystery is why are there so many crappy studio films? And they've got the money and the talent!

Because they are not trying to make a film, so much as they are trying to create a combined media/toy/book/internet/career promotion/marketing project, and the most basic concepts of what constitutes actual storytelling, artistic expression, and film making frequently don't make it into the equation.

 

[avp]

I am by no means an expert but, money issues aside, lack of talent (acting, scripting, pre-production, photography, etc.) seems to be the primary cause of bad indy films. So how does one "get" talent?
-Be born with it,
-Go to film school,
-Work in the Industry - put in your time,
-Make bad films...?

 

[Tom Marshall]

Not necessarily lack of talent... lack of experience can also be a contributing factor. Quite a few people say Tarantino's earlier stuff really sucks and he's got plenty of talent.

 

[Jim Brennan]

I believe in talent, but I think that is just the seed. I think that dedication, persistence and experience can be more valuable assets. Enthusiasm and passion count for a lot too.

But getting quality people is key.

 

[Andrew Brinkhaus]

Absolutely. Having an experienced and talented DP for one, can blow an indie film through the roof, as compared to having the director/writer/editor/producer shoot the film. It's a very unprofessional and unsatisfying method of production, yet many directors still feel it necessary. Why aren't Hollywood films shot that way? For exactly that reason...Directing on it's own is MORE than enough on someones plate if they take the project seriously, and want to come out with a quality piece in the end. You have to realize their are people who's lives revolve around the jobs they do, and they are far more qualified, and experienced to do those jobs. Collaboration is key!

 

[Larry Rutledge]

But getting quality people is key.

I believe this is a major factor. Too often, probably due to lack of money, same person performs far too many roles and never has the time to master/perfect any of them.

It's important to know where your strengths are and focus on those. For everything else find people who are strong in that particular area.




Edited to add: While stumbling through writing this, Andrew said it for me, and did a better job of it

 

[Blaine]

Of course making sure you've got a good tight script is paramount. Everything else flows from the script. Spending the time on pre-prod is next. Casting, seeking out interesting locations, putting together a talented crew...

No matter how good the script is, if you have crappy acting, you'll have a crappy film.

It's not going to help if it looks like it was shot in a rented apartment. For this, I'd point to JDS's Rekindled or more recently, A Little Mouth to Feed. No matter what one thinks about his content, it's very hard to argue with his art direction. He goes the extra step in all details to provide a "real" place.

During the actual shooting, don't forget about good sound. It's pretty hard to get the echo out of a shot afterward.

Extra time spent on lighting a scene by someone who knows what he's doing is also a huge plus.

I guess the list could go on and on because there is no ONE thing, instead it is the culmination of many different areas.

Creating several variations on your budget, taking different contingencies into consideration can be helpful. I've found Gorilla to be a big help in this area. Also, knowing "exactly" how long your shoot is going to be will be crucial in creating your budget where you can get a good idea of what each day costs to shoot (on average).

 

[Luis Caffesse]

I guess the list could go on and on because there is no ONE thing, instead it is the culmination of many different areas.

Exactly.

And the flip side to that is that most indie films are bad because they are the culmination of a series of compromises that are made throughout the process. Each may seem innocuous enough on its own - but together they create a whole that is weaker than the sum of its parts.

 

[Blaine]

most indie films are bad because they are the culmination of a series of compromises that are made throughout the process. Each may seem innocuous enough on its own - but together they create a whole that is weaker than the sum of its parts.

Now that is a quote to be remembered. I think I'll frame it and make sure it's on every set I am. :thumbsup:

 

[Jim Brennan]

Absolutely. Having an experienced and talented DP for one, can blow an indie film through the roof, as compared to having the director/writer/editor/producer shoot the film. It's a very unprofessional and unsatisfying method of production, yet many directors still feel it necessary. Why aren't Hollywood films shot that way? For exactly that reason...Directing on it's own is MORE than enough on someones plate if they take the project seriously, and want to come out with a quality piece in the end. You have to realize their are people who's lives revolve around the jobs they do, and they are far more qualified, and experienced to do those jobs. Collaboration is key!

Good stuff all around, but this one struck me. It might take time and persistence, but it is absolutely worthwhile to find a competent DP and some sort of line producer or first AD to handle the logistics on a daily basis if you plan to direct.

You need to be able to focus on one job. That solves a lot of problems.

Keep 'em coming.