Panasonic's New Prosumer AVCHD Camera Mock-up

Digigenic

Digigenic

Well-known member
Yet to be named, and reported from Kakugyo's InterBEE 2007 Report. The only image that has been made available is of the camera paired with an AVCHD deck.
The form factor appears to follow inline with the HVX200, but a bit smaller, almost like a DVX100's size.
Since this is reportedly nothing more than a mock-up, there were no additional details given. But it is interesting to see where they appear to be going next with AVCHD.
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AVCHDcamandprotabledeck.jpg
 
damn, that's ugly!! I don't care if it was 8k, I wouldn't buy it just because it's so nasty looking. And that's not nasty in a good way. :)

EDIT: Wasn't there a camera by Panasonic posted lately that was really scary looking as well? Who the hell is designing these things? Even a student of industrial design could pull off better than this.
 
So we're maybe looking at a prosumer AVCHD capable camera that can record onto SD cards? That's actually kind of exciting.

Oh, and this thing has a massive case of "teh ugly".
 
insanityfw said:
Wasn't there a camera by Panasonic posted lately that was really scary looking as well?
Who the hell is designing these things? Even a student of industrial design could pull off better than this.
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Yes, it's called the AG-HMC70.
Expected in hands by Spring of 2008, priced under $2000 US.


AG-HMC70_upcoming1.jpg



Basically just a rehoused AG-HSC1U meant to *appear* professional.
In its current state, there appear to be no rings on the lens, meaning it's either a very early mock-up or they really cut some corners in the "appearing to be pro" division.
Also, don't expect the footage from the AG-HMC70 to look any different from consumer AVCHD cameras either considering it's still rated at 13Mbps from the 1/4" chipset.
Let's hope they don't do the same with the other mock-up featured at InterBEE.
 
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Digigenic said:
Yes, it's called the AG-HMC70.
Expected in hands by Spring of 2008, priced under $2000 US.


AG-HMC70_upcoming1.jpg



Basically just a rehoused AG-HSC1U meant to *appear* professional.
In its current state, there appear to be no rings on the lens, meaning it's either a very early mock-up or they really cut some corners in the "appearing to be pro" division.
Also, don't expect the footage from the AG-HMC70 to look any different from consumer AVCHD cameras either considering it's still rated at 13Mbps from the 1/4" chipset.
Let's hope they don't do the same with the other mock-up featured at InterBEE.
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Now THAT is an ugly camera.
 
Digigenic said:
Basically just a rehoused AG-HSC1U meant to *appear* professional.
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That's exactly what it is, although the audio portion has been substantially improved. Everything else is identical to the HSC1U.

In its current state, there appear to be no rings on the lens, meaning it's either a very early mock-up or they really cut some corners in the "appearing to be pro" division.
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No rings on the lens at all. I've seen it at two shows now, and there are no rings. It's basically meant to be an autofocus camera. You can manually focus but it's really silly, there's some pushbuttons and you push the "-" or "+" buttons to focus with. (in other words, you're probably gonna leave it on auto...)

Also, don't expect the footage from the AG-HMC70 to look any different from consumer AVCHD cameras either considering it's still rated at 13Mbps from the 1/4" chipset.
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Footage is identical to the HSC1U. Looks very good, amazing for 13mbps, but it's identical. 60i-only too.

Let's hope they don't do the same with the other mock-up featured at InterBEE.
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Well, I gotta say, it looks like a slightly uglied DVX, but that looks like maybe the exact camera I've been waiting for them (er, demanding them?) to produce... a REAL AVC-HD product. A high-def DVX. We'll see what they've done with it, I guess NAB will bring news (or maybe DV Expo?) but that looks like the first real foray into making a real AVC-HD camera that might take advantage of what the format is capable of. About time!
 
... but yeah, that also looks like someone beat a DVX with an ugly stick. Don't know what's with their designs recently. At least it's not the Super 8 ray-gun thing. :)
 
Ugh... Seriously who is responsible for the design of cameras in Panasonic?

Barry, sincerely, I would prefer the 8mm mock up design to this one...

I would assume we are talking DVX price range with this camera- Canon XH-A1 territory- maybe aprox 3 000 USD. Performance should be close to the Canon.

But its no competition for the Sony EX. And I don't believe it is designed to be an HVX beater, too.

I know its for a different price range, but the price difference is just too little, in a business investment perspective, to ignore.

As an HVX owner, and a happy one, the Sony EX hype is not affecting me much- but it is making me look more seriously to that particular camera..

Having invested in P2 (p2 store, p2 cards, etc.), I would certainly be happy to continue on the P2 workflow. But if the Sony EX ( I'll try to see if I can take a hold on one to do some tests) is really that much more compared to the HVX, than I'm really hoping the response from Panasonic, in P2 form, comes soon, offering similar value for money.

Changing workflow (AGAIN) could be a pain, but achieving the best end result is what we always try to achieve. And if the Ex is the undisputed king in the price range... Than EX it should be.

Speculating, NAB should probably be the time we hear news on the new HVX. By then the EX should already have a very strong install base.

I'm curious to see how much of an improvement the new HVX will be. Keeping the DVCPRO HD codec, I would assume at least CCD's capable of resolving the 1440:1080 (Pal) full resolution of the codec, and significant low light capabilities compared to the current model. 1/2 CCD's Would be fantastic.

Sorry, I just let my line of tought flow for a moment.

Going back to the avchd camera, here's what I can speculate about it- comparing it to the competition):

I would say it should be good, but should keep the 1/3 ccd's, maybe have comparable resolution to Canon XL-a1 (since there will be compromise in color space, 4:2:0, inherent to the avchd format), and will have cine-gamma like the dvx. It will probably not offer variable frame rates, or even possibly 720p. It will record to the SDHC cards like we see in the picture. I'm curious to see the bit rate it will encode the signal to avc- but my hopes are not very high. It doesn't make sense if this camera can outperform the HVX. And since the A1 vs HVX is already such a tough call for many...

This is not confirmed information and just pure speculation from a poster. I just trew this up for fun and sharing toughts! :)
 
Not sure what this all was about, I mean, there's no way we can know anything about this other than looking at the kinda-ugly body. But underestimating what Panasonic would do with a new cam? You woulda lost that bet on the HVX, and you would have probably lost that bet on the DVX. You say no 720? Why not? No VFR? Why not? No competition for the EX1? Why not?

I mean, we don't know anything about it other than that it uses AVC-HD and it looks sort of like a DVX. And that apparently it'll use CCDs instead of CMOS. AVC-HD at 24 megabits should match XDCAM-HQ at 35 megabits toe-to-toe. And the memory cards will be more like $40, not $900. So if they get it right, who's to say it wouldn't be a match for the EX1 or HVX? Heck, naysayers said similar things about the XHA1, but it ended up delivering the same look as the XLH1 at 1/3 the price.

It doesn't make sense if this camera can outperform the HVX.
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Again, why not? The HVX is two years old now. By the time this AVC-HD model comes out maybe there'll be an HVX200A or HVX250 or something on the market that ups the stakes even higher. Panasonic's had a history of making products at significantly lower price points than the other guys; the 2/3" HPX500 is half the cost of the 1/2" XDCAM 350, and the HPX3000 is 2/3 the cost of an F900R. So why would it be surprising to see an EX1-class unit, at a DVX price point, from them? I mean, as long as someone wants a 1920x1080, 4:2:0, long-GOP system, AVC-HD would seem to be directly comparable.

I say we at least find out what it can do, before we go saying what we think it won't do! I've been clamoring at them for an AVC-HD DVX for about a year now, and now that we're starting to see something that looks like they've definitely been listening, I certainly don't see reason for pessimism! :thumbsup:
 
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Barry_Green said:
Not sure what this all was about, I mean, there's no way we can know anything about this other than looking at the kinda-ugly body. But underestimating what Panasonic would do with a new cam? You woulda lost that bet on the HVX, and you would have probably lost that bet on the DVX. You say no 720? Why not? No VFR? Why not? No competition for the EX1? Why not?

I mean, we don't know anything about it other than that it uses AVC-HD and it looks sort of like a DVX. And that apparently it'll use CCDs instead of CMOS. AVC-HD at 24 megabits should match XDCAM-HQ at 35 megabits toe-to-toe. And the memory cards will be $40, not $900. So if they get it right, who's to say it wouldn't be a match for the EX1 or HVX? Heck, naysayers said similar things about the XHA1, but it ended up delivering the same look as the XLH1 at 1/3 the price.


Again, why not? The HVX is two years old now. By the time this AVC-HD model comes out maybe there'll be an HVX200A or HVX250 or something on the market that ups the stakes even higher. Panasonic's had a history of making products at significantly lower price points than the other guys; the 2/3" HPX500 is half the cost of the 1/2" XDCAM 350, and the HPX3000 is 1/3 the cost of an F900R. So why would it be surprising to see an EX1-class unit, at a DVX price point, from them? I mean, as long as someone wants a 1920x1080, 4:2:0, long-GOP system, AVC-HD would seem to be directly comparable.

I say we at least find out what it can do, before we go saying what we think it won't do! I've been clamoring at them for an AVC-HD DVX for about a year now, and now that we're starting to see something that looks like they've definitely been listening, I certainly don't see reason for pessimism! :thumbsup:
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Seeing it in that perspective... Yeah, why not?

Maybe it was just the looks that put me on a pessimistic rant...

Then again, the HVX is no "italian design" shell either, and it produces class leading fantastic pictures...

So its wait and see, again, and "not judge the book by its cover"...:)

...But it still is damn ugly!
 
I'm pretty sure it was a quickie mock up in order to get people interested... and they will surprise us with a fine design.
 
u say ugly? i say i don't care.

capabilities and ergonomics not "look" is how i judge a camera.

give me a kodak brownie box that did all i needed and i'd buy tomw.

form follows function.

just one person's opinion.

be well

rob
 
Actually when I was looking at that camera at Interbee and talking with people.. it was a more a dvc30 replacement in HD.
 
Really? It looks exactly like a DVX with some HVX influence in it (auto/man switch, user buttons along the bottom, etc)... I hope it's more DVX than DVC30.
 
Barry_Green said:
AVC-HD at 24 megabits should match XDCAM-HQ at 35 megabits toe-to-toe. And the memory cards will be more like $40, not $900. So if they get it right, who's to say it wouldn't be a match for the EX1 or HVX?
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In terms of quality I'd expect AVC-HD at 24Mbs to OUTPERFORM 35Mbs XDCAM-HD, let alone be a match for it. But.... you never get anything for nothing, and disadvantages I would see with this approach is the extra computer power needed to deal with footage.

So therefore would AVC-Intra 50Mbs to SDHC cards not make more sense? OK, half the run time compared to 24Mbs, but now we're talking about $40 cards v $900, and twice the run time per GB of DVCProHD, the economics of such a camera would still make sense - whilst avoiding all the long GOP issues that AVC-HD would still give. And a lot of SD slots could be fitted in the space occupied by two P2. Technically, the current best SDHC cards AFAIK are 8GB at 160Mbs, so should be fine for AVC-Intra. (And still permit much faster than real time downloading.)

Don't get me wrong - I think the AVC-HD/SDHC card combination has a big future, but more at the consumer end. Such as you describe seems a bit between stools - too good for the low market, but not good enough (in terms of editability at least) for a more professional market.

I just don't see why SD cards have to mean AVC-HD, and it has to be P2 cards for AVC-Intra/DVCPro-HD. At this point in the market, and this size/weight of camera, combining SD card recording with AVC-Intra would surely make huge sense? Getting the best of both worlds?

In terms of physical design, well, yes, it's ugly, and I can't believe such a thing is being exhibited even as a prototype. But worse than that are ergonomics - the handgrip seems right at the back of the camera, so one's arm would have to be bent tight back. Why at least not put that further forward?
 
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