Why dont they FLIP???

I'm not trying to start some sorta fight here Estebeverde... You seem to be somewhat irate

Technically according to your code... it isn't as easy as a line of code.
In your coding it was 9 lines. i mean if you want to get technical and nit-picky here.

In the words of Barry (that can be found originally here)
"It's been high on my list to ask for too. But so far there has never been a firmware update. It's not like they know we want it and just aren't giving it to us, it's that there hasn't been one of any type yet. So maybe when there is one, this will be included? If it's possible, that is. There are only certain things that firmware can do, and there are some things that it'd be impossible to do in a firmware update (such as adding AVC-HD support). So if it's possible, they know we want it..."
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I'm sure it is possible to do it... the image flips on the LCD already when you flip the LCD. I think the "complication" that comes into play may be sales and what not... people on the above thread stated that it is possible and I'm not against that.



Also keep in mind you want the image flipped at the CCD not on the viewfinder... I mean if you're going to flip it... why not flip it before post as well.
 
ESTEBEVERDE said:
Also, Canon would be well served to make adapters that use their line of lenses.

I would imagine they could engineer something superior to what we use today very close or even a bit less than current cost.
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Agreed. How many of us already have lenses we could use??

Just think how much Canon (or Panasonic) would make if such came out. Most would pay $1k for an adapter, how much would you pay for an A1 or DVX (or others) that used the lens.
 
To answer 3xm... Jan said the following in the past

Hi,

Tom is an engineer/technician at our LA facility. Super guy, but the petitions if they are going to be sent should be sent to me. But before you pick up your pens to start writing, I have been told repeatedly, because I have asked repeatedly, by the factory that this is not possible as a firmware upgrade. Sorry.

Frankly since you will be adding more glass to the front of your camera and I think the only solution is and it is a necessary one, to purchase the Marshall and turn it upside down. I think that trying to focus all of that glass on a small screen is asking for trouble,

My .02,

Jan
__________________
Jan Crittenden Livingston
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems
Product Manager,
DVCPRO50/25, AG-DVX100B, AG-HVX200
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Shane Jackson said:
Agreed. How many of us already have lenses we could use??

Just think how much Canon (or Panasonic) would make if such came out. Most would pay $1k for an adapter, how much would you pay for an A1 or DVX (or others) that used the lens.
Click to expand...

I've been saying this for a long time. Maybe NAB will shine light on a solution!
 
jstunzi said:
Also keep in mind you want the image flipped at the CCD not on the viewfinder... I mean if you're going to flip it... why not flip it before post as well.
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Actualy no. It does not matter what the CCD sees. It already flips the image it sees. An option to disable the auto flip is what we need.

As for the code. Im sure it is more than 1 line or even 9. Would the entire firmware have to be rewriten... no.

Where are all the hackers when you need them!!
 
jstunzi said:
I'm not trying to start some sorta fight here Estebeverde... You seem to be somewhat irate

Technically according to your code... it isn't as easy as a line of code.
In your coding it was 9 lines. i mean if you want to get technical and nit-picky here.

In the words of Barry (that can be found originally here)


I'm sure it is possible to do it... the image flips on the LCD already when you flip the LCD. I think the "complication" that comes into play may be sales and what not... people on the above thread stated that it is possible and I'm not against that.



Also keep in mind you want the image flipped at the CCD not on the viewfinder... I mean if you're going to flip it... why not flip it before post as well.
Click to expand...


I'm not irate in the least.

You corrected me and I am merely giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I said a change in firmware that would be a few lines of code. But, thanks for the additional correction...

Also, if you reread my post you will see that did in fact say that the solution would be to flip the image data before it was overlaid with camera info (Exposure, Shutter, Mode...)

This would send all devices a "flipped" image with the camera info overlaid correctly orientated. This means the viewfinder, on board screen, attached monitor(s), and recording media would all have the correctly orientated images.


It's no big deal and when I am corrected I actually appreciate it as it is an opportunity to learn. It's not personal.
 
jstunzi said:
If we're all so sensitive about this issue... lets start a petition.
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Hey jstunzi, this is actually a great idea and just what I am sure many of us are thinking! :thumbsup:


I know Jan is our panny rep but who are the cannon and sony reps?

They are silly not to be interacting with us more openly.
 
I agree... they probably stay hidden so they don't get stormed with PMs.

I think JVC has seen the light... they had an adapter now right? Or is that only for PL mount lenses?

Someone who should be thinking about this is those Reel-Stream guys. I mean if they're modding the HVX for their Hydra 4:4:4 colorspace... why not add in the flip function. All and all.. Luis is somewhat right in the fact that this will be solved with upcoming flip modules. But the rigs shall be quite interesting to say the least.
 
Yes, flipping the LCD is a perfect example of how easy it is to fix this in firmware.

The flip with the LCD is happening with a mechanical indicator switch as well.

A firmware update that has a menu button would be even much easier to implement as it can all be done in code.
 
jstunzi said:
I agree... they probably stay hidden so they don't get stormed with PMs.

I think JVC has seen the light... they had an adapter now right? Or is that only for PL mount lenses?

Someone who should be thinking about this is those Reel-Stream guys. I mean if they're modding the HVX for their Hydra 4:4:4 colorspace... why not add in the flip function. All and all.. Luis is somewhat right in the fact that this will be solved with upcoming flip modules. But the rigs shall be quite interesting to say the least.
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Great points!

I'm not sure if JVC has an adapter but I sure hope they do as it will at least give notice to other manufacturers.

Oh yeah! The Reel-Stream guys might have some insight since they are quite adept at hacking cams.

I wonder if they have access to the firmware? They could mod it and sell it for a reasonable price I bet.


What Barry was saying in his post was that the hardware in cams today isn't set up to handle the AVC-HD encoding and decoding.

That makes sense. But, an image flipping mod is not that big of a deal as it is already being done in cam.
 
jstunzi said:
You could put it as a user selectable option on the HVX.

Will the new Sony EX have it built in?
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I am not sure if the Sony Ex has it but boy oh boy I hope they do.


I am excited by the footage coming from that cam so far and right now and am eagerly awaiting adapter footage!
 
jstunzi said:
I agree... they probably stay hidden so they don't get stormed with PMs.

I think JVC has seen the light... they had an adapter now right? Or is that only for PL mount lenses?

Someone who should be thinking about this is those Reel-Stream guys. I mean if they're modding the HVX for their Hydra 4:4:4 colorspace... why not add in the flip function. All and all.. Luis is somewhat right in the fact that this will be solved with upcoming flip modules. But the rigs shall be quite interesting to say the least.
Click to expand...

They could add the flip function in their Hydra SW easy I would think.

"Luis is somewhat right in the fact that this will be solved with upcoming flip modules."

I wouldnt say solved, it is simply a patch to the problem. Like I said, adding the mirror's (or other optics) causes light loss. Even with laser quality mirrors you lose a good deal of light ($400 worth of mirrors will yeild 3% loss) of course you could spend $2 grand on some Broadband Super Mirrors and only lose .3%.........
 
The Cinevate flip module's light loss is about 0.2 stops....so almost a non-issue. Because it is modular, users who later purchase a camera with onboard image correction, will be able to use the adapter without the optical flip :-) The JVC adpater is great, however it gives up a great deal of FOV on 35mm cine lenses due to it's inability to adjust for formats.
 
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Thanks for the response Dennis... by formats you mean lens mounts and what not right?

That's great on the light loss note with the Cinevate flip module.

I think the big thing for you the upcoming flip manufacturers (SG Pro, Redrock, Cinevate) is mounting systems. The Letus users have already gone through the first paces of "how do I mount this with my rails." I'm a huge Zacuto fan... so I think I've already found my solution. But we're all going to have to wait and see what the Big Four (SG, M2, Br, Letus) have in store for mounting options in the future.
 
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