Can you patent a film idea?

EP2005

EP2005

Well-known member
I know copy write is a tough subject and has been brought up before, but maybe someone can steer me in the right direction...

You know how "Girls Gone Wild" is basically a DVD series of a concept (concept being amateur college girls getting naked). It was the first on the market for awhile before any "rip offs" came out...

Did the creator copy write/patent that idea, stopping others from making it before him/immediatly after?

I have an idea for a series of DVD's that nobody has done before and isn't on the market yet, but im afraid that once my idea becomes known, that others will follow (which is understandable, thats what creates a competitive market).

Is there anyway to get a patent or copy write that gives me some time to complete my idea and bank before others can enter the market?
 
Hi EP,

Wow, I can't imagine any film concept that so useful, novel, and non-obvious that you'd be entitled to a patent. Let's say there weren't any reality TV shows and you're the first to come up with the idea - you won't get a patent.

Anyway, if you want to spend several thousand dollars to try to get a patent and were so lucky to be granted rights, yes you could complete the idea and take it to market at your leisure in the coming years. In fact, you might never bring it to market at all, instead selling the patent to another party - or simply wait as sue another party encroaching your rights.

Really though, patents cover three areas:

1) Utility patents may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, article of manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof;
2) Design patents may be granted to anyone who invents a new, original, and ornamental design for an article of manufacture; and 3) Plant patents may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers and asexually reproduces any distinct and new variety of plant.

What you meant to ask was about a copyright- notice the official wording:

Copyright is a form of protection provided to the authors of “original works of authorship” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works, both published and unpublished. The 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work, to prepare derivative works, to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work, to perform the copyrighted work publicly, or to display the copyrighted work publicly.

So you're looking for a Performing Art copyright. Notice the difference between patents and copyrights in the government's description:

"Copyright protects original works of authorship, while a patent protects inventions or discoveries. Ideas and discoveries are not protected by the copyright law, although the way in which they are expressed may be."

Here's what's protected:


Copyright protects “original works of authorship” that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device. Copyrightable works include the following categories:
  1. literary works
  2. musical works, including any accompanying words
  3. dramatic works, including any accompanying music
  4. pantomimes and choreographic works
  5. pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
  6. motion pictures and other audiovisual works
  7. sound recordings
  8. architectural works
And here's what's not protected:

  1. Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)
  2. Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
  3. Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration
  4. Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)
Okay, here's the URL for the U.S. copyright office.

Regards, Michael
 
I don't know the logisitics of trying to patent something (usually it's an invention, no?)

But I recently finished reading the book iWoz--Steve (Apple computer) Wozniak's autobiography. In it, he claims Apple pursued copyrights for the company's innovative computer designs because patents were a nightmare to deal with.

If Apple didn't want to bother, then you more than likely won't, either.

I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but you can't copyright ideas. Only a tangible product.
 
Spartacus said:
Don´t want to be a spoilsport, but this can have various reasons, uniqueness just being one of them...
Click to expand...

I'm taking a HUGE risk with this idea, but it's one of those "are you sure nobody's done that before? it's a great idea, seems like it has been"

but it hasn't been done, i've done my research, and i'm guessing because the execution of the filming would be very painful physically (without giving away too much, the weight of the equipment would be the pain, not like some jackass thing or something). Well i'm willing to give my body to make sure this works.

This is a product that has endless potential with a series of DVDs, im talking ENDLESS DVDs, and a market that is now coming into light with technology becoming more affordable.

Thanks to everyone for the help. It looks like im just gunna have to bust my butt and get this done, and then just copyright the product and hope I just made the best possible product.
 
also, im not sure how much worth it has, but I had a friend tell me to write a letter to myself that states what the idea is, and then to mail the letter to myself, so its dated. Not sure what benefits it truly has, but at least i have a government dated piece of evidence that says when i came up with the idea. Hope this may help someone else in my shoes.
 
songwriters do this same thing, it's called the poor man's copyright. i'm not sure that it would really hold up in court though.....

maybe you could record your idea (make a video of yourself taking about your idea) then get a copyright for the video. I am assuming that the copyright would protect all the information in the video, not sure though....check into that.
 
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Overland: Explain. If you're talking about an idea in a "fixed form," then maybe.

EP2005: Why don't you tell us your idea and then we'll film... err... decide if it's truly innovative. :)
 
I'd say good luck on patenting a film idea. Just go shoot it.

*****not to be insulting here********but everybody thinks they have sliced bread 2.0. I've been involved in soooo many pitch meetings. I'm attending another one in LA on Monday. Some producers have an idea that is so good it can't even be discussed on a phone. Sheesh. Do you know how many times I've heard that?


Just go shoot it. If it as good as you say, people will hail you as a genius, you''l be rich and famous, and who gives a **** if they rip it off then because you'll be acknowledged as the creator. Hopefully.
 
If you REALLY believe your idea is a gold mine, and you truly think it's patentable, then for goodness sake don't rely on the advice of a bunch of essentially strangers on a public board like this -- go see an attorney experienced in patent law. That's the only really good way to get the kind of expert advice you need. If you're not willing or able to spend the nominal amount it would cost to consult with an attorney, then how do you plan to come up with the thousands of dollars it would take to actually apply for a patent?

See a lawyer. Good luck!
 
Good advice David.

A "poor man's copyright" guarantees nothing.

And no you can't patent an idea for a movie. You can register a copyright for a treatment. ANything you put in physical form (song, script, etc) is automatically proteced as long as you cna prove you did it. Registering your copyright allows you to seek punitive damages, and also makes it easier to prove ownership.


Loosely (I am NOT a lawyer):
Patents are for devices, Trademarks are for branding imagery, slogans, etc.
 
overlandfilms said:
You absolutely can copyright an idea.
Click to expand...

Can you expand on that a bit? I'm really curious, because I've always heard people say (as they have in this thread a few times) that you cannot copyright an idea, and it seems to just be taken for granted that thats the way it is.

Are you referring to Jim's approach of writing up a treatment and copyrighting that?
Or is there something else that can be done?

Thanks.
 
I don't know that your idea is unique enough that it would someday warrant litigation. Also - you're not sharing what that idea is. That's a good thing. You won't find much sympathy from a court trying to establish proof of concept for a film or your DVD series. Our chosen media is just that derivative. Music has quantifiable chords, arrangements and beats. Films and TV shows get 'inspired by', books get option'ed, styles and ideas overlap.

With the case of this past summer's "Knocked Up", it doesn't even matter if they {somehwat} steal your title. Rebecca Eckler's book by the same name just wasn't unique enough to hold up in court. She got like 2 seconds of notoriety and wrote about it...... Oh, they might have taken the cover photo off her book too....

"Is that my baby on the screen?"

and.....

Hit Movie “Knocked Up” With a Lawsuit
 
Okay, here is the earthshaking secret. We've used it to copyright reality shows (which cannot be done), game shows (which cannot be done) and others.

Write a short story that details your concept in ficticious format. It must be in narrative form. Dialogue is written as it would appear in narrative form.

For game shows, write every possible scenario across several random characters. The name of your story is the name of your show. Chapters act loosely as episodes, though this isn't the hard and fast rule. Register each short story or novella with USLOC under Form TX or Short Form TX. Wait approximately two months and your certificates will arrive if there are no clerical errors in your submission.

As an example, these are the steps we've taken with our game show. Two separate, but legally partnered parties: mail full materials (treatment, synopsis, short story, trademark application TEAS forms et-cetera) to each other and to self and hold unopened indefinitely; mail full materials to WGA for registration; mail full materials to Library of Congress Office of Copyrights; Register three show names in black and white and combined color marks with USPTO; Place TM device on all logos that are under review with USPTO until certificate numbers are issued; Place Circle R device on first use of all logos that receive USPTO certificates.

Nothing is bulletproof, but the onus is on the creator to do whatever possible to protect their interests. Just my opinion on this, but I'd solidly ignore those who tell you to go and carelessly spread your concepts around like so many seeds in the wind without concern over ownership.

They will steal it. Say it out loud and with me, "They will steal it".

Button it up - Fort Knox it, then shoot it or pitch it or both. Taking care of your intellectual property isn't an inconvenience, it's just another relatively simple matter of doing business in the entertainment industry.

e
 
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Interesting idea Overland, very creative....almost patentable ;)

If you are worried about people involved in the production selling your idea then a trusty NDA can be quite effective. If you are pitching your idea to industry producers you won't be able to get them to sign one but its quite common for producers to get crew to sign NDA.

But ultimately your best protection is, as already said, to just do it. Even if others copy you, you have a head start to the market that , if your idea is truly that great, will be easy to maintain with the funding from people beating a path to your door to invest in your concept.

Good luck
 
So, for clarity's sake here:

You can not patent/copyright an "idea," per se.

Your idea must be transferred to a fixed form (a la writing, being videotaped/filmmed, etc.). The fixed form of the idea can then be protected.

Seriously, though, I doubt someone would rip off your idea if they haven't already thought of it. I'd be more concerned that someone would try to rip off your finished work.
 
overlandfilms said:
Okay, here is the earthshaking secret. We've used it to copyright reality shows (which cannot be done), game shows (which cannot be done) and others.

Write a short story that details your concept in ficticious format. It must be in narrative form. Dialogue is written as it would appear in narrative form.

For game shows, write every possible scenario across several random characters. The name of your story is the name of your show. Chapters act loosely as episodes, though this isn't the hard and fast rule. Register each short story or novella with USLOC under Form TX or Short Form TX. Wait approximately two months and your certificates will arrive if there are no clerical errors in your submission.

As an example, these are the steps we've taken with our game show. Two separate, but legally partnered parties: mail full materials (treatment, synopsis, short story, trademark application TEAS forms et-cetera) to each other and to self and hold unopened indefinitely; mail full materials to WGA for registration; mail full materials to Library of Congress Office of Copyrights; Register three show names in black and white and combined color marks with USPTO; Place TM device on all logos that are under review with USPTO until certificate numbers are issued; Place Circle R device on first use of all logos that receive USPTO certificates.

Nothing is bulletproof, but the onus is on the creator to do whatever possible to protect their interests. Just my opinion on this, but I'd solidly ignore those who tell you to go and carelessly spread your concepts around like so many seeds in the wind without concern over ownership.

They will steal it. Say it out loud and with me, "They will steal it".

Button it up - Fort Knox it, then shoot it or pitch it or both. Taking care of your intellectual property isn't an inconvenience, it's just another relatively simple matter of doing business in the entertainment industry.

e
Click to expand...

But that is not copywriting an idea. You have taken the next step and created a treatment and other documentation which takes it out of the realm of an idea, and into the realm of an actual process.

As to the patent idea, is this a process of creating a DVD (such as a way to write the data to the DVD in a process different than others write the data)? I think not based on the original post. It sounds like it is a content situation. In that case you can only copyright what you have created (and get trademarks if they are specific to your company). Even then all someone has to do is change things a bit and can then do their own things. If an idea was copyrightable, trademarkable, or patentable, then there would be only one film company that could make horror films. Only one film company could make gore films. Only one company could make comedies. Only one film company could make science fiction films. Only one.... you get the drift....

Perhaps David Jimmerson can chime in on this.....
 
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