Editing A 150 Min Film On Vegas

Deuceofspades

Deuceofspades

Veteran
The project, a full feature drama, 1955 period film currently clocking at a little over 150 minutes.

The camera will now be the HVX200 shooting in 720-24p on P2 cards.

The challenge: editing the film in vegas. (why vegas? because I love vegas and know it already and also don't have a mac to go the Final Cut route)

I am going to need all the help I can get here to pull this off. I will be editing the film myself. This basically is a DIY film of epic proportions.

The challenges:

1. Vegas handling DVCPRO HD format - Solution? I was told to get Raylight plug in - will I then not have to worry about format compatibilty?

2. Rendering: Will vegas need to rerender everytime I make any change to my timeline? Or will it be real time? raylight site claims everything will be real time... Sounds too good to be true...

3. File management. What is the best way to go about editing such a long piece in Vegas? I really need help with this one, If anyone is willing to PM me about this I would be forever in your debt.

I currently run Vegas 6.0 and also have soundforge along with it.

All the local pros I know use Final Cut and they all say Vegas can't do it. I bet you it can and that one of you has done it (successfully) before. So please help me stay with Vegas.

Thank you.
 
1) No problems. Raylight does everything you need.

2) No. Vegas never renders. It doesn't always play back at the full framerate, but you never have to wait for a render.

3) I organize my clips using Windows Explorer.

4) All of the local pros you know are wrong. (And I'd bet have never used Vegas.)
 
David Jimerson said:
1) No problems. Raylight does everything you need.

2) No. Vegas never renders. It doesn't always play back at the full framerate, but you never have to wait for a render.

3) I organize my clips using Windows Explorer.

4) All of the local pros you know are wrong. (And I'd bet have never used Vegas.)
Click to expand...


I LOVE YOU DAVID :) - What is the longest project you have edited on Vegas?

OK can we address how to go about editing the movie? Here is my first question:

1. Do I want to edit each scene as a seperate project or the whole movie as one HUGE project?

Note: Keeping scenes seperate would be convenient but then I don't know how to recombine them together into one big project.... How many sound and video tracks would I end up with????? YIKES.
 
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I've done projects up to three hours long.

Editing each scene separately is a time-honored way of going about it, though you'll probably want to do your final sound mix in the full project timeline, and you'll especially have to if you want to be 5.1 surround.

You can bring them together into a single timeline in two ways -- you can bring each VEG file directly into a single timeline, and each will be a treated as its own clip. Or, you can render each individual scene to AVI (23.976 uncompressed, or as 24p DV with 2-3-3-2 pulldown), and then bring them into the main timeline. The first option is better in all ways except for one -- with rendered AVIs, you can have full real-time playback; if you have effects, etc., in your individual scene projects, the VEG files will play back accordingly.
 
David, you say you organize your CLIPS in Explorer. How do you organize your EDITED (trimmed) CLIPS?

For example, I have a long interview (CLIP). Inside that CLIP, I've cut it into pieces that I need to keep organized and then arrange by topic. How would you organize those edited CLIPS?

In your PROJECT MEDIA folder, it just lists the CLIPS, and I can't see that there is a good way to organize the EDITED (trimmed) CLIPS.

The thumbnail in the timeline should display the clip properties, where you could label the ACTIVE TAKE NAME, but I can't seem to get that to work. Am I making sense?

What am I missing?

bsmall
 
David Jimerson said:
I've done projects up to three hours long.

Editing each scene separately is a time-honored way of going about it, though you'll probably want to do your final sound mix in the full project timeline, and you'll especially have to if you want to be 5.1 surround.

You can bring them together into a single timeline in two ways -- you can bring each VEG file directly into a single timeline, and each will be a treated as its own clip.
Click to expand...

david, let us explore the above option.

1. Exactely how do you bring multiple projets into one time line, can you walk me through it (where to click etc...)?

Can I see a screen shot of what multiple projects look like when in the same timeline?
 
The most basic way of doing it is this -- open a new project. Then, open the folder (in Windows Explorer) where you keep your VEG files for the other scenes. Drag a VEG file to the timeline. Repeat for every scene.

On the timeline, it looks the same as having any other clips. The VEG file -- your individual scene projects -- BECOME clips on the timeline and can be treated like clips in every way; you can trim them, split them, add effects, crop, anything.

And, you can still go back into them individually and edit them -- all you have to do is right-click and choose "Edit in Vegas," and a new instance of Vegas will open. Any changes you make will appear in the main timeline once you save.
 
FWIW - I've used Vegas for some pretty long projects. My work flow was to make each scene its own project, and then have a project that I used to hook all the scenes together. Worked fine for me.
 
David Jimerson said:
The most basic way of doing it is this -- open a new project. Then, open the folder (in Windows Explorer) where you keep your VEG files for the other scenes. Drag a VEG file to the timeline. Repeat for every scene.

On the timeline, it looks the same as having any other clips. The VEG file -- your individual scene projects -- BECOME clips on the timeline and can be treated like clips in every way; you can trim them, split them, add effects, crop, anything.

And, you can still go back into them individually and edit them -- all you have to do is right-click and choose "Edit in Vegas," and a new instance of Vegas will open. Any changes you make will appear in the main timeline once you save.
Click to expand...

David THIS ROCKS! If the above is true then why are all these people so stuck on Final Cut pro? I don't understand them. A friend has used both and he complains about FCP taking time to redraw the sound waves everytime he makes any change. With Vegas you never have to worry about that.

I guess when you are on PC, Vegas seems the tool of choice for me. I started with Premiere and had nothing but unfixable glitches in my transitions so went back to the store and spent more money and got Vegas. Never regretted it ever. I always say: "this thing will do anything, it will even make you coffee" HAHA!

Now if only they could come out with a version that also massaged your sore neck for you! :)

UPDATE: Just tested your procedure and it worked like a charm. Any changes I made in the original scene file was immediately transfered to the film project line.
 
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DAVID

I see I can upgrade from 6.0 to 8.0 for only $150 right now, I assume i do want to upgrade, right?

I have windows XP pro and will be upgrading to dual core processor and the bells and whistles needed to do HD.

I await your green light to upgrade. I assume 8 will do everything 6 will do plus more? :) Maybe even have that neck rub option I was longing for? HAHA!
 
Yes, you should upgrade. There were some things added in Version 7 -- and especially in DVD Architect 4 -- that you'll find very useful. V8 adds some more things as well.
 
David I have my mxf video files on external hard drives but explorer doesn't recognize the drives....I'm I missing something? I'm on vista with vegas 7. The other question is about backing up mxf files, do I loose anything when I convert them to self-contained avi's? I have just fund it much easier working with the avi's than mxf's. They also take up half the size on my drives anyway. Just wondering if I should keep the original mxf's or the self-contained avi's are just as good.
Thnak you!
Jim.
 
jinks said:
David I have my mxf video files on external hard drives but explorer doesn't recognize the drives....I'm I missing something? I'm on vista with vegas 7. The other question is about backing up mxf files, do I loose anything when I convert them to self-contained avi's? I have just fund it much easier working with the avi's than mxf's. They also take up half the size on my drives anyway. Just wondering if I should keep the original mxf's or the self-contained avi's are just as good.
Thnak you!
Jim.
Click to expand...

OK this is the part when I (once again) come across as the complete rookie I am: What are mxf files?

THE MORE I KNOW THE MORE I REALIZE I DON'T KNOW MUCH
 
David Jimerson said:
Yes, you should upgrade. There were some things added in Version 7 -- and especially in DVD Architect 4 -- that you'll find very useful. V8 adds some more things as well.
Click to expand...

Done :).

DAVID what 3d party plug ins do you use with vega and why (what do they do)?

Have you ever used "twigster" or is it "tweakster" not sure, I heard about it while listening to the directors commentaries of the movie November (amazing what you learn when listening to commentaries). I really like what it does (slow motion special effect)... Where can I find it?
 
jinks said:
David I have my mxf video files on external hard drives but explorer doesn't recognize the drives....I'm I missing something?
Click to expand...

I don't have enough info there. Are the drives powered? Plugged in?

Are they formatted for the Mac?


I'm on vista with vegas 7. The other question is about backing up mxf files, do I loose anything when I convert them to self-contained avi's? I have just fund it much easier working with the avi's than mxf's. They also take up half the size on my drives anyway. Just wondering if I should keep the original mxf's or the self-contained avi's are just as good.
Thnak you!
Jim.
Click to expand...

If they're self-contained AVIs, you don't need the MXF files. I would recommend against getting rid of the MXF files, though.
 
Deuceofspades said:
Done :).

DAVID what 3d party plug ins do you use with vega and why (what do they do)?

Have you ever used "twigster" or is it "tweakster" not sure, I heard about it while listening to the directors commentaries of the movie November (amazing what you learn when listening to commentaries). I really like what it does (slow motion special effect)... Where can I find it?
Click to expand...

I don't really use any 3D plugins.

You're referring to "Twixtor." I haven't used it much; I've always found overcranking/undercranking sufficient for any temporal changes I want to make.
 
Thanks David, the drives are ac-powered and plugged to the pc with usb. My computer does recognize them so I guess they're pc formatted not mac or maybe universal. The only way I access them in vegas is by importing and browsing to them which works just fine but the explorer feature in vegas gives you more control.... but it won't recognize them, I dunno why!
 
jinks said:
Thanks David, the drives are ac-powered and plugged to the pc with usb. My computer does recognize them so I guess they're pc formatted not mac or maybe universal. The only way I access them in vegas is by importing and browsing to them which works just fine but the explorer feature in vegas gives you more control.... but it won't recognize them, I dunno why!
Click to expand...

The explorer window in Vegas doesn't refresh automatically. If you plugged in the drives after you opened Vegas, you have to right-click on the explorer window and choose "Refresh."
 
David Jimerson said:
I don't really use any 3D plugins.

You're referring to "Twixtor." I haven't used it much; I've always found overcranking/undercranking sufficient for any temporal changes I want to make.
Click to expand...

It seems Twixtor will actually create extra frames? Not sure but I did love the look of it and thought it might be a good thing to use for my dramatic dragrace / crash scene since I intend to film most of it in slow mo. So I assume you could overcrank (so do a normal slow motion procedure) but then also in post apply Twixtor to add an extra "dimension" to the shot's slow mo, if you wanted.

I am not sure they support Vegas though... Did you use it with Vegas?
 
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