Film School, University, or DIY?

S

Skiers187

New member
Hello all, I have been saving money for quite a long time now in hopes to go to some form of school. Now that I am getting to decision time, im not sure. My dream is to become a snowboard videographer, more independent film style.

I can continue with one more year at junior college and transfer to a university for a degree.
Or I could go the film school route, use better equipment, more hands on.
Or I could use my money to buy a bunch of nice stuff and try to get into the business on my own.

Going to a university and getting a degree sounds good but I dont really care about all the history of film and BS coarses you have to take.

Film School offers great equipment and hands on training, but its SUPER expensive and NO degree.

Any input on LA film School would be appreciated(since that is the film school im looking at) but 38,000 dollars:crybaby:

But over-all I just need to find out what it takes to get into this business, because maybe all that is useless and I could intern for a company and move up from there. I just dont know, and I have done my reasearch and tried to make contact with companies but Ive got nothing
Sorry for the novel, What do you think?
 
Skiers187 said:
My dream is to become a snowboard videographer, more independent film style.
Click to expand...

Paying job, cable access workshop and buy a camera... lather, rinse, repeat :)
 
Well, I chose the University route, so I'm going to stick to my guns.

While in University, the technical aspects I learned where few and not quite industry ready, what I learned about Film, art, philosophy and everything else that's essential for good artistic creation I owe a great part to my University education.

In University, what you are learning, either trough books, teachings and classes, is the experience of a lifetime of other professionals of the area, as well as great thinkers in various creative industries. You'll be learning their experiences gattered in a lifetime in 5 or 4 years. I believe its a good deal.

University also gives you time to share your toughts and ideas with others. This is also another great way to learn new things.

If you go to work, immediatelly, you may get to be a great snowboard videographer, no doubt. But is that your ultimate goal? Open your mind, and maybe you'll take videography beyond snowboard...

My 2 cents...

EDIT- You can Experiment with videography while in University. If you can, take also some low end jobs in local productions, like gaffer or best boy, and you'll learn a lot on the technical aspect of the craft. But don't neglect the brain.
 
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One more thing to think about is the networking aspect of the school you might want to go to... You are next to nothing in the industry unless you know someone. So, how are you going to meet these people? Film School and University can be a way of doing that. (just a thought)

Here begins my rant...
Truthfully, there is no set way to go here. Mainly because you are asking two questions. The first one is "How do I get into the industry" and the second is How do I make it as a "skiing videoographer".

The answer to number 1 is... you don't. Unless you're content with woking as a subling for the bulk of your career for people who use us as a stepping stone to get themselves to the top, you don't get into the industry. It's a cut throught business sometimes.

The answer to number 2 is... get a camera and shoot, but make sure you know how to shoot. If you don't know then learn. You can learn by trial and error or you can take a much slower route and be taught by formal education. Or you can do a combination of both. How do you learn better? There is no fast track to the end of this part. The only way to figure out how to get there quicker is to figure out what method/ environment you learn best in. If you're a DIY hungry type, go get a small camera and shoot till you burn out the heads on your camera. If you're a "teach me your wisdom Obi-wan" kind of guy then go to a film school.

You may never make it into the industry. You may wind up as a manager of a Target. But that should never stop you from beocming a filmmaker.
 
If you want to learn how to make films - go to film school (it's not a degree, but it is teaching you what you want to learn). Don't go for a uni degree if this is your plan, that's the mistake I've made and I'm now in my 3rd year of learning very little for the sake of a piece of paper that most employers probably won't be interested in anyway. Plus the contacts you'll make at film school (assuming you work to make them) will be far more beneficial to the career you want than knowing lots of people with BAs.

Or spend the money on equipment and teach yourself. As far as I can tell the TV/Film industry doesn't care about training, they care about skills and experience - so work on those two and go for it.
 
Im with SPZ on this one. Basically what it comes down to is where youd like to end up. Sure, its possible to take your money and try to make it on your own, but theres no gurantees and no fallback - if for some reason you want to get out of production at some point (gasp!) you might have a hard time.

Going to a University allows you to learn the basics in many production areas, and also work with people who are interested/learning themselves. Im a big fan of the academic setting - having so many minds interested in learning and creating films can create some awesome work (even if moreso in concept than execution, you are all learning after all), and if nothing else serves to broaden your horizons.

Just like the real world, what you get out of going to a university depends on what you put in it. You cant go and expect just being there to get it done for you. Be proactive, join shoots (even outside school) and make connections. Its true that in the production world a degree doesnt buy you much - it wont magically jump you up the ladder a few spaces. But in the TV/Film world outside of actual production (the business side), it can matter - and it will definitely matter if at some point you want to concentrate on another area or career. It gives you options.

From my experience at a University (not even a well known one for film), I made plenty of connections that I still keep in contact with - one who got me a job at a production company in NJ, where, in turn, I made plenty more contacts in the NYC area. I guess what Im saying is dont go to a non-degree film school program or try and start up in the industry on your own just to make connections - you can do that any way you decide to proceed - its all about applying yourself and getting out there.

However, if you have no interest in learning about the history of film or other 'BS' courses, University might not be for you. A huge part of the University experience is learning. Not learning just about how to make a film, but learning in general - about a variety of subjects, a variety of people and about yourself. And just because youre forced to take classes outside of film doesnt mean you can learn things that are directly applicable to what you want to do. Some of the classes I took outside of film were the most valuable ones - the Psychology classes I took greatly influenced my screenwriting and filmmaking. Theres plenty more examples too: business classes can teach you how to run a production company etc. If all youre interested in is the actual production of films, though, then Uni might not be the avenue for you.

The plus side to a Uni program is the equipment (even regular Universities outside of film schools have access to some good equipment - just look into it at where youre applying), the chance to conentrate solely on your filmmaking, the opportunity to shoot and screen multiple short films in a relatively short amount of time, the access to crew and actors, and hopefully knowledgable professors. In addition, youll get to learn about plenty more subjects that will come in handy. I know I wouldnt trade my years at University for anything. Just my two cents - sorry it went on so long and hope it helps!
 
Thank you everyone for your posts. I really appreciate your input.
About going to a university, Can you take that degree and apply some where and get a job? That is my question. Or is it more about the people you meet?
What I have learned is that I want to learn about what im interested in. Not writing papers on the philsophy behind film. Not because I dont see value in that, but because I dont try my best unless its something that im passionate about. However if a degree is what I need to make this happen, I will give 110%. I realize there is no set-in-stone answer, But I cant help worrying that I will make the wrong decision.
But thank you agian for everyone's posts. I think what I need is to speak to someone in the industry, because they dont return emails or phone calls:furious3:
 
Well, I went to university for my first year and started out strong. Thought I'd give it a try, because academically I knew I could do it. I thought it would give me time to write a feature script I'd been trying to write for a few years.

After the first semester and getting credits in courses that were half credits, I had learned quite a bit in pretty much one course. It was a media course that thought you to think broadly and open your mind up. Other than that, the stuff wasn't so informative and was just plain boring.

A month into my second semester, I was still doing the tedious work that I was given and although it wasn't hard, I hadn't even started my script or touched a camera in ages. I decided to network a bit and found a writer on DVXuser and hooked up with him letting know of my concept. He thought it was a great idea and together, we spent about three months writing the script. I stopped doing my school work, applied to a college for film production (for the following year in the same city) and started entering film competitions on campus.

I met a lot of people, not necessarily industry related - but good, solid people and had experiences living in residence that I otherwise would not have had staying home and attending school. I did however make some great contacts, eventually got my script written and had a year that will be beneficial to every aspect of my life, film related or not.

So, although I will not be attending university next year, I feel that I've had experiences that I would not have been able to get otherwise and that it helped me grow as a filmmaker and become a more learned person.

I'd say go to school, if for nothing else than the experience you garner. I don't think university would be the right path, because although everyone says you'll have a piece of paper to fall back on - the truth is, an undergraduate isn't going to make THAT much of a difference. Graduate schools matter in terms of making a lot of money and in this industry, especially since you're going after a certain market - I don't think university will cut it.

That's just my thoughts though. Good luck with your decision.

-Kegan
 
Skiers187 said:
My dream is to become a snowboard videographer, more independent film style.
Click to expand...

That's a dream that you wouldn't necessarily need to go to school for. I think you could learn just about everything by hanging out on this site for a few months, reading everything you can and practicing on your own.

If you want to go to school, by all means, go. I'm just saying that you wouldn't have to.
 
I went to university and majored in film production. Got my degree in Summer '05 and before the end of the year landed a job as an intern at a non-profit filming their programs. I parlayed that into a contract job where I make a good amount of money per month as "Director of Video Production," I set my own schedule and network with other non-profits, now I shoot and edit video for four different non-profits and still have enough free time to travel around the state and do music videos and write.

My degree hasn't really done much for me, but the knowledge I've gained overall is what really counts. If something here falls apart, I'll always have my university degree (IMO, this is the best way to go because if your plan fails, you'll still have a degree to fall back and enter the career force. But that's not what anyone wants here).

IMO, however, even film school degrees or whatever they give you don't count for anything in the real world. What counts is, like others say, who you know. You can network for that. I've done tons of networking in the non-profit sector and learned how to raise money to do my own features, which I plan to do a couple of before I turn 30.

I've learned far more about filmmaking since I graduated than I did while I was in, even while making short films and playing with 16mm. Being on a set and getting "real world" experience is worth more than anything else. But really, it isn't even about your experience or your knowledge, it's about what you do with it. If you want to make snowboard videos, the only thing you can do is keep going up to the mountains and filming snowboard videos. If you've got the chops, it'll happen. But you have to keep putting yourself out there until it hits.
 
As far as the degree goes, it will get you a job. It might not be the job you want, but it will get you work. Right out of college I started as an intern, which turned into a full-time job as a screenwriter at the same prod. company. However, if youre looking to get on set (gaffer, AD, grip, DP and so on), a degree alone wont do it - thats more about the connections (which can be made in Uni, film school or just by throwing your name out there and taking any work you can).

Contrary to what some others have said, my Univeristy production experience was very much like the professional sets I was on upon graduation - there was no point where I realized that everything I learned in classes and on set at school was just crap in the real world, it actually applied. And of course that probably depends very much on the particular programs.

So, overall a degree could very well equal a job. It probably wont equal a snowboard cinematography/directing job, but it very well could lead to the connections that get you there (and youd have a handy little degree to go along with it). Again, all of your options could probably get you to the point you want to be, you just have to think about everything else you want to get out of this experience and the other costs and benefits of the options.
 
My advise would be to get a degree before anything. I'm assuming that you are 18-23? I have gone from being in the Navy for four years, to fire fighting for 2 years, to getting an B.A. in Fine art, to filmmaking. My point is that you have no idea where you will be led and what new interests will arise along your path.

A 4 year degree will apply to all aspects of you life. Of course it all depends on how much you put into it and how open you are to learn. I can think of so many classes that I had to take that at first didn't seem all that appealing. I chose to put 100% into every class though, with the assumption that someday, somewhere I could put the info to use. I am so glad that I had that attitude then. There is so much to be learned and every little bit can expand our understanding of ourself and life in general... and that always trickles down into what we create; be it a painting or a snowboard video.

The other benefit of getting a degree of course is that when you suddenly wake up years from now and have 2 kids and a wife, and are wondering what the hell you did with your free time when you were alone... then you will always have that degree to fall back on. It is a lot like the classic speech you see in a movie of a teacher telling a football player to finish college before signing a contract with a pro team (good advise).

As far as film school goes. I think that once you have a degree you will be able to make a much more informed decision as to weather or not it will be worth your time. Honestly, if I didn't have kids, I would consider applying. However, I have accomplished a ton in the last three years by teaching myself via the web, books, and practice.

I've gone on long enough, here are the keys as I see it :) :

1. Don't rush, but finish it all before you have kids.
2. Be a sponge and retain everything, even if at the time you don't think you will ever use it.
3. No matter the route you take, the most important thing is to be passionate and put %110 into it. Everything else will fall into place.
 
I went to college but didn't stick it out. About 50% of the best and the brightest I know in this business didn't complete college. That said, I have to agree that having a degree gives you another option if the fim business doesn't work out for you. If you go the film school route or the DIY route it's like going all in, there's no plan B.

I took a look at the Mack Dawg Productions site. Cool stuff. Excellent cinematography and editorial. For someone that loves snowboarding I'm sure it's a dream job. It would be fun to edit that footage, but I'm not sure how much fun it would be hauling the stix, cam, extra batts, etc. up the side of a mountain at 6am in 30 degree weather. I'm well past 20, kicks like that are for kids. Kudos to the hard working and talented DP's at Mack Dawg.
 
Another thought - one that I am applying to my own career - is to get a film education independently and get a degree in another field: business. Filmmaking is as much a business as it is an art, whether I like it or not. I figure this plan of attack will allow me to come in at two different angles. Unfortunately for me, I didn't take snodart's advise and get my degree over with before marriage and children. Thanks for rubbing it in! :)

That being said, I have had friends that graduated from film school and found success in that as well. It seems, from the opinions on this board and from my experience, that the typical move from film school is into an internship and then on to a paying gig.

I think either decision is the right one, as long as you are fully committed to it, but it is never bad to have a degree, despite the fact that it is just a piece of paper.
 
IBEJohnson said:
I think either decision is the right one, as long as you are fully committed to it, but it is never bad to have a degree, despite the fact that it is just a piece of paper.
Click to expand...

This seems ,for more or less, to be the underlying idea that im getting from the majority of posts. I think will be waiting to decide until the snowboard videoghraphy workshop Im going to attend in july(taught by Brad Kremer of Mack Dawg Productions, He made the movie in the previous link). So I think I will DRILL him with questions until they put a muzzle on me!

But Seriously thank you guys and gals for posting. This is just the biggest decision I have had to make yet.
 
a) Go to University, major in Tech, you are already technically savvy with your HVX, A1 or whatever camera, computers, NLE, Audio, Effects ...etc.

b) Make lots of money in the IT sector after graduation.

c) Then you can buy whatever expensive toys you like (E.g. RED, $6000 dolly ...etc.)

d) With financial security, you can make lots of lots of DIY/learning movies or even go to that LA fim School part time or full time.
 
My dream is to become a snowboard videographer, more independent film style.
Click to expand...

I too share your dream, I just graduated high school last spring and have taken this year off to hopefully figure out my route. So far I am applying to the Art Institute of Portland, Oregon. I also just purchased a DVX100b, its still in the mail but its my first step to pursuing my future.

Has anyone here attended any of the art institutes, if so how did it prepare you for what you did after...

I learn best from doing stuff hands on, this is why i steered away from the university route. I couldn't deal with the BS classes. I would rather play with a camera or a editing/ fx application more then sit in a lecture hall. So far i have thought myself Adobe premier pro, Photoshop basics and Aftereffects basics with a little help from www.videocopilot.com

I could just go it alone and get into the business, i have some connections in the Boston area. But i'm afraid with this i would be inexperienced and if i didn't push myself hard enough that i wouldn't make it.

any suggestions?

Thanks
 
I am going to apply to SFSU for a BA in Cinema for next fall, for the last 3 years i have been working at the same company shooting video. i finally realized that i could do this for another 4 years and be in the same place same crappy contacts or i could go to school, get my BA have fun and make contacts.
And then in that 4 years i would have more to show for then i would if i stayed working and doing it on my own...
 
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