Cool-Light's Blue Line body with "HMI" guts

We're hoping for September timeframe but factory capacity here is at an all time high. China is more popular this year than ever so its tough to get what you need right now. By the way, where's that PC version of HD Monitor Pro you were making? ;-)
 
Well we're doing some testing now to be sure these ballasts can stand up to day to day performance. It really occurred to me that our fluorescent technology is already very mature so no worries there--that's why you don't see people bitching here all the time about our products because they use very mature technology; but we really need some more testing on these newer ballast and bulbs so we know more about them--and we're doing that right now with some people out there. All these metal halide/hmi ballasts I'm using are lower cost and are relatively new technology and I just need a better feel for how they'll stand up in real life before we get a bunch of them in real use. Some of the feedback we've learned so far on our 1200w unit has been really good and will help improve it.
 
We'll blow it by a month or so I think. Our plastic flo's are holding everything up. The factory making those is extremely slow in all they do. Really frustrating...
 
Hey Greg,

Probably just for a month and then it's back to work on the 1200w par and fresnel as well as the 250w CDM fresnel unit I have planned.
 
Richard, I am considering buying a K5600 joker kit that consists of a Joker bug 400 and an 800....Talk me out of it. Just over $11,000 with an extra softbox and two extra bulbs.
I have read several of your threads, and I know your concerned about reliability of the ballasts...ie- untested over a long period of time.
If I should buy a couple of your lights(HMI's) what is your warrenty period,and if I am say, just out of normal warrenty period...Can you give me a suggested/best guess price on replacing a worn out ballast, and lastly, where do I send it for repair.. ? China- or your branch in Texas ?
Best, Jon

Follow up- I have never had a problem with a Joker- K5600 product, so I reaaly need to be convinced.
Give me your best sales pitch.
 
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"While providing better than studio quality light, these revolutionary units are nuclear explosion proof, its cables can
withstand the tenacious bite of the biggest crocodile. Their magnetic filed hovering systems allow for placement at
heights up to 1 mile without the need for stands and their innovative light control features allow for their 3-billion
lumens to be split up into up to 250 different light sources each individually dimmable without color shift and from
source points up to 550 yards away from the unit itself."

This and any other previous statements made by USlatin do not represent
the views or opinions of Cool lights, Richard Andrewski or DVXuser.com. The
immaturity associated with such a statement is not to be associated with
any of the aforementioned parties and is solely due to a caffeine high and
waaay too much spare time. None of this is admissible in court and will not
be considered, blah blah blah... the caffeine is wearing off. Lol

err... well... I am sure it would be something like that :D

Richard could you please also include a short list of all the units you will end up offering with their output and "type". I know you've done this but I'd love to see if there are any additions or changes.
 
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Hi Jon,

As someone once said on a different thread "He'll give it to you straight." I would rather talk you out of it than into it if you have doubts. ;-) This is a new product without a track record yet so you have to be somewhat of a risk taker to participate. Even the best HMI's don't have the reliability of a tungsten or even a flo unit. There are added responsibilities to owning an HMI and understanding its quirks. Don't think of it as a tungsten unit with some extra parts. It's far more complicated than that. Also, in any game of any kind, don't play if you're afraid of losing or taking risks.

This is not only a really great question but a tough one and I think it needs to be discussed in an open manner and I hope we can brainstorm about it somewhat too. It's something I think about a great deal for sure! We're creating a new paradigm here that hasn't been considered much at all before so it needs all angles considered.

In any case, to answer where service would be carried out, you would be sending to wherever our technician(s) would be based in the USA and if you're on the other side of the world, you'd be sending to China until we get a physical presence in Europe and other places.

Service is perhaps one of the best questions about HMI. It's true that these things have more stress on them (than a fluorescent ballast for instance). The startup voltage pulse alone is tough on the ignitor and bulb. We're talking between 1000v and 4000v depending upon the type bulb. The increased heat on the parts in the ballast is also stressful. An hot restrike type bulb has even more stress than a non-hot restrike equivalent bulb.

I have no worries about providing a warranty on our flo products because time has proven that these things are reliable. We have hundreds of units out there and they're functioning just fine. But, fluorescent ballasts and tubes are a very mature product so that's not surprising. They follow normal electronic rules for reliability. Such as: if you make it past the first 30 days and the reality of what manufacturers call "infant mortality" (that is the idea that if components will die, it will be in the beginning and if they make it past the 30 day burn in, they usually go for a very long time). 9 times out of 10, when we get a unit back for repair / replacement its a physical connection that's worked its way loose from the plugin connectors on a ballast--not a real electronic problem and very easy to solve.

It's so hard to contemplate a guarantee on HMI bulbs too. My feeling is very tentative about even guaranteeing a great name like Osram. This is one reason I've rejected the Chinese bulbs for sure. I can't put a guarantee of any kind on them since they don't have a long track record yet.

A very good point to consider, being truthful as I am, is how would service be played out as even Arris or established brands have their problems. Most of you haven't had to deal with this because you rent now. The rental company provides the assurance that it will work. The unit is completely checked out before each rental and if it does fail all you have to do is call the company to have it replaced. Doesn't matter if its bulb or ballast the effect is the same.

Also, considering that when you charge $8000 to $11,000 for a kit, you can afford to help your customers out with some service should be a given. When another manufacturer (like Cool Lights for instance) charges $699, $1399 or even $2900 for the equivalent, we make some money but not so much. At these prices we're not following normal manufacturing rules for profit formula--but then, neither are the other more expensive guys either. There's a middle ground somewhere that our prices will eventually fall into so we can make the profit we should. You can think of these as introductory prices for risk takers.

Here are some various thoughts on the subject. As I said before, we are creating a new paradigm so we need all new surroundings and ideas for the paradigm for it to work correctly and function at its best. You shouldn't participate if you're scared of losing or if you want to try to apply the old ideas to the new ones. Especially don't participate if you're not an early adopter or if you don't understand that HMI doesn't have the same reliability level of tungsten. That wouldn't work and it wouldn't put the new idea off on its best start.

The fundamental question is: how do you lower the cost of a product (with no track record yet) but still provide a guarantee. Here's some thoughts on the subject:

1). If you're serious about using HMI for efficiencies sake and lowering heat on the set, having a great daylight hard source, etc.--perhaps since the price is so much lower, its better to think about getting two or three whole units (or just ballasts since the fixture has less active components in it) and then you have backups while your waiting on a unit to be repaired. In this way, you can still keep running with one unit while the other is out for service. You can't buy a backup today as no one is giving you a reasonable option. It's a new concept! I am providing that reasonable option now. Considering the prices for replacement of units or just backup units would be as follows: semi-pro 575w ballast would be $480. Pro 575/1200 ballast would be $1200 alone. The 150w CDM ballast would be $125 each. I'm sure you'll agree at these prices and considered against an Arri or a K5600, you can afford to do some self-backup can't you? Then you're effectively doing your own self-assuring to replace what the rental company does for you today.

2). Service contracts or extended warranties has been an answer in other industries where people are concerned with response after the warranty period. We can consider such an option as well.

3). Actively limit the production in the beginning to a test group of customers. The introductory prices that you see today would be what you pay and that's the reward for the risk. Later customers, after the initial test would pay a higher price once the track record is established. This needs to be a tough group of people willing to pay for this innovation and take risks. This same test group of initial customers could buy more product at a lower price too if they so desired as more reward. Why do this? You want to be part of the new paradigm. Otherwise you wouldn't do it and would either buy the $11,000 kit or continue renting. But whichever way you go, there is no totally free ride. Every path has its own responsibilities, rewards and risks.

Just some thoughts on the subject...
 
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USLatinContent said:
"While providing better than studio quality light, these revolutionary units are nuclear explosion proof, its cables can
withstand the tenacious bite of the biggest crocodile. Their magnetic filed hovering systems allow for placement at
heights up to 1 mile without the need for stands and their innovative light control features allow for their 3-billion
lumens to be split up into up to 250 different light sources each individually dimmable without color shift and from
source points up to 550 yards away from the unit itself."

This and any other previous statements made by USlatin do not represent
the views or opinions of Cool lights, Richard Andrewski or DVXuser.com. The
immaturity associated with such a statement is not to be associated with
any of the aforementioned parties and is solely due to a caffeine high and
waaay too much spare time. None of this is admissible in court and will not
be considered, blah blah blah... the caffeine is wearing off. Lol

err... well... I am sure it would be something like that :D

Richard could you please also include a short list of all the units you will end up offering with their output and "type". I know you've done this but I'd love to see if there are any additions or changes.
Click to expand...

hehe. I wish we were at that point. Here's some idea of what we'll have:

150w CDM $399 (extra ballasts $125) includes 1 ballast, fixture, barndoors, 9 foot cable, 1 bulb in either tungsten or daylight color--your choice.

575w HMI Semi-pro $699 (extra ballasts $480) includes 1 575 only ballast, fixture, barndoors, 35 foot cable, Osram bulbs can be bought if you pre-order now for our cost of $120 each but we won't stock the Osram or any 575w bulbs in the beginning as we can't meet the 500 bulb minimum order required to stock them. Ballast has a fan noise.

575w HMI Pro $1399 (extra ballasts $1200) includes 1 575/1200 ballast, fixture, barndoors, 15 foot cable, same comments about Osram bulbs. Ballast is silent.

Also, what I hope we can do very soon:

1200w HMI par $2900 (extra ballasts $1200) includes 1 575/1200 ballast, fixture, barndoors, 15 foot cable. 1200w Osram bulbs can be pre-ordered at cost of $155 each. This is a real light monster! I should post a video showing this thing at work--in fact thats a great idea I need to do soon. The only thing holding us up right now on this item is a more inexpensive lens set.

1200w compact fresnel, $1900 (extra ballasts $1200) includes 1 575/1200 ballast, barndoors, 15 foot cable. Same comments about 1200 bulbs. The only thing holding us up on this is waiting for the sample unit to come back from factory to approve it.

Let me make a posting a bit later with an introduction to the pro ballast and some pictures.
 
Wow Richard... thanks for an other string of your book-type posts, and for the list I asked for. Thanks for taking the time!

Just to triple check... a working unit for the 575w HMI with the Osram bulb would be a total of $819.-
 
Richard,
We'll you've said it better than I could have. I should link the people reading my new monitor thread to post #135. I'm in the same boat you are, but probably not making as much as you ahahahha. Should have gone to China. :D
here is the link to my post, let me know what you think, if you have any ideas or advise as to how to deal with new customers, etc...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=111093
 
siniarch said:
Richard,
We'll you've said it better than I could have. I should link the people reading my new monitor thread to post #135. I'm in the same boat you are, but probably not making as much as you ahahahha. Should have gone to China. :D
here is the link to my post, let me know what you think, if you have any ideas or advise as to how to deal with new customers, etc...
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=111093
Click to expand...

Well you have to tell people the truth and set expectations. When you don't do that it's sure trouble and your reputation will be in jeopardy. Early adopters have a certain personality type as do late adopters. But its the early adopters that pave the way for the others later and thank God we have some of those or new products and innovations wouldn't be possible.

I think each of you should be truthful with yourselves about what category you're in and act appropriately. We won't ever bring the price of some of these sacred cows down though if we don't have a few patient risk takers.

One last thought. Just a general attitude thing.

When you're on a set with our Cool Lights HMIs or an Arri or K5600, Kino Flo or whatever for that matter; it won't make a bit of difference which brand it is if it doesn't light. Everyone will be looking at you expectantly for answers. Even if you've rented a light, you still have to call the rental company (hopefully they're open!) to get a replacement. What will you do at that moment? What level of confidence, debugging skills and self-reliance do you have to keep tempers from rising as the money is being lost per minute of all those costs that add up per hour on a production are still adding up whether the camera is rolling or not. Will you have a backup? Can you afford a backup with an Arri or K5600 if you buy that kit?

Even with the best service plan or warranty in the world, I think you'll agree that you've blown it already if you don't have a backup plan because the moment to capture something is right now while you've got everyone together and it will be costly to get them together again and recreate the moment. Who is giving you the affordable backup plan? Arri, K5600 or Cool Lights? Who cares if it's an Arri or a Cool Lights--if it doesn't work you're in trouble.

I know what my answers are on the subject. I can say with a great deal of confidence that would want to have a backup to keep things running. With prices like we're offering now, thats possible where it wasn't thinkable before.

In addition, while things are still running, I can go off in the corner and I can open the cover of just about anything and if there's something simple, I'll find it. Many times, searching for the simple thing is the answer but our tendencies are to believe its more complex and we can't do anything about it. More often than not, like I mentioned before--its a loose wire or a fuse or something simple. If it does turn out more complex--a circuit board needs replacing or whatever, then the backup will let us keep running while we send the unit in for fixing. It's something everyone should think about and answer for themselves BEFORE THEY ARE IN THIS SITUATION...

What is your level of self-reliance when something goes wrong; and will you rely on excuses, blame or pull out another unit so things can progress like they should. Personally, I hate giving excuses.

Yes you are getting a 2.4K or 5K worth of light for drawing only 575 or 1200w respectively and thats a reason to be really excited but the electronics behind that create added responsibilities to be aware of and I think this backup issue can't be ignored. After all, there's practically nothing to keep a 5K tungsten from running other than an easily replaceable bulb or a circuit breaker blowing. You're far less likely to have the circuit breaker issue though with the 1200w HMI! ;-)
 
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