Overexpose then color correct = No noise?

S

superhardrocker

Active member
I've noticed when I'm using the 100B, in order to kill the noise.
I overexpose and try to make big contrasts in lighting. Then do simple color correction. There is no noise.

Is this what you guys do to kill the noise? I have seen some beautiful dvx footage with no noise at all, even shot in the dark. You guys think this is what they do?
 
Over exposing and bringing the footage down in post is a good way to reduce noise. Just make sure you don't blow your highlights out because you can never get them back.
 
Master-ped raises or lowers your master black level of your video... youll read many like the crushed black [-7] look here on dvxuser to help eliminate noise, others say to raise [0] the master-ped and not give up on the recording of detail in your shadow areas [areas where noise is most often found] Others, like yourself, record with a slight over-exposure [ also good lighting goes a long way] then bring down their values in post. Your black level and exposure [ Ire] can go hand in hand when lowering in post. Youll find it in your menu... master pedestal. There are stickies here on it as well.
 
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the shots in the dark without noise are generally made by just crushing the blacks in the image in post. normal shots without noise are just using proper exposure. I would say that shooting with the correct exposure and crushing your blacks to add contrast and reduce and remove noise in the shadows is the best way to go. This will give you the most lattitude for your images, and keep important details in the highlights which could be blown out when overexosing for your subject. it will also hold better color saturation and representation throughout the entire image. overexposing in general is very dangerous, because you lose alot of fine image detail and accurate color representation in the higlight range. although it should work great to get rid of noise, there are just better ways of doing so. key detail coring and other image settings in the camera will help give you a nice clean image using correct exposure. seacrh for noise issues with DVX and you should get the exact settings from a few different threads which cover this issue. the rest is handled by on set lighting and post techniques.
 
Intentionally overexposing the image is a bit like playing with firecrackers. Once you blow off a finger, it isn't coming back.
 
Neil Rowe said:
to get rid of noise, there are just better ways of doing so. key detail coring and other image settings in the camera will help give you a nice clean image using correct exposure.
Click to expand...

hey neil, i got a lot out of your post. would you (or anyone else) mind saying a bit more about key detail coring, etc.?

thanks!
 
Detail. Detail enhances edges, too much and the image starts to look electronic and artificial, like oh too many bad wedding videos. Leave off unless you have a specific need for it. A slightly softer image is part of the film look. Exaggerated edge detail is part of the video look.

Detail Coring. When you enhance detail, you add noise, especially in the shadows. Detail Coring reduces the added noise.

Reference: http://kino-eye.com/2005/02/16/dvx100settings/

Seems like creating and solving detail problem at the same time :D
 
I think it important that we understand we are not talking about going off the deep end in overexposing here. If I have control over post, and I can push it 1 1/2 to 2 stops without blowing anything out, I do.
 
even if your not blowing anything out though, your still going to lose detail and color fidelity for everything that has been pushed into the highlight range that would normally hold a more solid and detailed image if kept in the normal exposure ranges. your also going to introduce noise in any shadows brought up that would have normally been pushed into the lowest of the curve and kept quiet. you can just crush tha shadows of course but theres nothing to bring detail and good color back from the highlights. on the HVX or DVx you have alot more room to work with on the lower range from correct exposure to play with than you do above. im not against experimentation or any different way of doing things at all, and i think people should just do whats working for them if they like the images they are getting. but for normal image control in general theres just good reason behind correct exposure being called correct exposure, and if done right noise shouldnt be a real issue. controlled lighting is also a big factor in the equasion. just look at how much lighting controll is used on a major film set. inside or outside its nothing short of a lighting warehouse with more sailsand jibs and such then the nina, pinta and santa maria combined. its seemingly rediculous when you realize how much goes into it, but it works really really well, and unfortunately the result is that alot of independents seem to think that they either just went outside and used the miraculously perfect sunshine alone or simply put up a few lights and pointed the camera and got this great image where everything is in range and beautiful with light and shadow in all the right places .. all just because its a film camera and film has so much more lattitude that they somehow didnt really need to do anything special to actually control thier lighting. while in reality when you look at an uncorrected film image they look really flat and dull in comparision and they are almost always very very carefully lit for correct eposure on everything in the shot. if they didnt do all that they would get blown out highlights and grainy shawdows and overexposed and washed out images too. ..not to the same extent as a little panny cam, but it would certainly be evident in the end results. you should just try to control your lighting as much as possible with gradients and polarizers and scrims and nds ..ect. or at least be picky about shooting angles (sun and shade) and time of day ect. taking into account what effect the light positioning within the scene or what sort of contrast it is creating withn the scene. perhaps the simplest of solutions would be to bring your shadows up with some more light and then crush them back a little in post again. that way they will be noiseless even in the darker regions that would normally have produced some noise if actually shot that dark. they should also hold more detail to work with then as well due to less noise. remember that scenes in the dark are almost never actually shot in the dark. (yeah yeah.. micheal mann, but look at all the noise.. its not the norm) they are normally shot with big bright lights, and plenty of light to get proper exposure, and then crushed down and color graded in post to make it look like it was that dark. alot of behind the scenes footage on DVDs will show you how much light was actually on set when they are shooting the "back ally scene" or whatever. if i remeber ok i thin that " the league of extraordinary gentlemen" has a bit in the BTS that shows this rather well. as long as you watch out for the sky and other tell tale lights youll get the same noiseless dark images and any deeper shadws with noise just get crushed back to black. and as far as keeping noise down in the day or on a bright set, it just a matter of controlling either lighting or shooting conditions, and using the right exposure.

as far as the coolest camera setups for a good image i know that barry green has posted them a few times. you could probably do a search for DVX/HVX image settings or something like that. im sure they are in his books though so picking up a copy wouldnt be a bad idea as they have alot more tips and such to offer for shooting and camera setup.
 
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Follow the post in this link:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=111384

This is a sure fire way to improve your DVX noise levels :)

As for over exposing, just don't clip the highlights.

I'm a bit iffy on DVX settings though, as I shoot with Andromeda, so I never use it, sorry I can't help you there... BUT, I do know that post color correction is much more powerful than anything you can possibly hope to do in camera. If I have some free time, I'll look into DV settings.

Hope the link helps!
 
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