5600K Preset Not to my liking

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davhud

davhud

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The 5600k preset on this camera is really yellow green for some reason even after setting the lens shading. Am I wrong or does the lens shading effect only the a/b balance and not the preset balance. Interesting too that they give you a way to step the a/b color temp but not the preset. What gives? We don't always have time white when we go outdoors on a shoot. Was going to let it go until a client mentioned it on a shoot the other day. I just muttered something about haze and they went back to cubby hole.

I've seen a few threads about this that suggest playing with the chroma etc. but why would they do this in the first place?
Is it to help out the cac in some way? Puzzling.

Otherwise a great piece of equip. Beautiful indoors.
 
White shading is unrelated to the white balance preset. I've heard several others complain about greenness in the preset. You can take some green out by using the Chroma Phase menu setting.

The color temp setting is disabled when using the presets; those settings are only active when you're using auto or manual white balance.
 
I've gotten used to the cyan after 2 months of shooting over 40 hours of material (I am, admittedly, shooting a film thatis consistant with that look)..

Because I work fast I use the presets regularly.. But what I've done is set a permanent manual 5600d white balance on the "B" setting and use that when I want a less cyan look (that way you can change the color phase in the menu)...

By the way, this cyan shift only seems to be noticeable when you use the CINE-D Gamma (the contrast of which which I prefer, contrary to all those who like CINE-V)...
 
Thanks to all for the replies. I suppose I was really asking a philosophical question. I've worked with Japanese TV many times over the years and realize they have a sometimes unusual aesthetic. Soooo... maybe somebody with closer ties to Panny then I have can present this question to them. I mean if theres a technical reason ok. If it was just because paany san thought this was good and nobody would say no, well not so good.

I still don't understand why I can't change the preset color temp and I can change the a/b temps. It would seem so easy to program.
This is a company that made its rep on brilliant color rendition over the last 10 years. I hate to see a stumble like this.
I also don't feel that having to change the chroma phase to adjust a preset that is obviously wrong is good idea especially on the fly.

Just my 2 cents
 
Because the preset is a preset. Imagine the number of complaints that would arise if someone set the camera on "preset", thinking that they're getting a guaranteed 5600, but not knowing that someone else had changed the color temp settings?

Preset = preset. It's 5600 or 3200. No menu settings affect that color temperature. If you want to affect the color temp, you have to use the manual or atw white balance.
 
I understand that a preset is a preset but most of the pro cameras I've worked with in the past and that includes most of them have the ability to change what the preset color temp is in the menu.

It's just nice to have 4 balances you can rely on since most shoots are a variety of mixed lighting situations.

But in this case changing the color temp of the preset really wouldn't help the yellow.


It also doesn't address why somebody didn't look at this preset somewhere in the production process and say Hey that's just ugly. Let's make sure the whites are white in our preset instead of making everything look like I strapped Roscoe straw on the lens.

I have my theories as to why it's the way it is but I believe I'll wait till I've done more testing on it before floating them in a public forum.
 
Wait... whats that on the grassy knoll in Dallas? Looks like an HPX 500 to me. Run that film again a little slower please Mr Zapruder.
 
davhud: Try CINE-V, or one of the other Gamma settings, just for the heck of it and see if you like it - maybe you alrerady have.

I think, but what do I know, that CINE-D is supposed to have an "X-MEN" look, or maybe "BOURNE WHATEVER" - I don't know, but it certainly isn't POLLYANNA...
 
Thanks for the thought Mac but I already shoot mostly cine D and cine V except for one kids show thats done on b-str.

I'm really just curious what the thought process behind making the preset so green yellow is. For years Sonys were blue and Ikegamis were red and Pannis were just right without having to go around your posterior to get them to look good. It's not that I can't get the camera to look good outside, I can, I'm just disappointed they don't shine right out of the box. In fact most pro cameras look good out of the box in daylight it's usually the tungsten preset that give you problems. To make them look good you have to step them in using varying amounts of quarter blue in front of the lens as you white balance.

I really think theres a technical reason why they cranked down the blue on the 5600k presets and I believe it has to do with color fringing with the package lens but without doing a real nuts and bolts test we'll never know. I really wish there was a site for pro cameras like DP review that practically takes the camera apart when they test them or like anandtech for computers which does take things apart like the new iphone.

It's really not a big deal and I'm sure they can fix it in a firmware update if they want to. But that said I'd still like to see what everything looks like on a test bench tested with the proper optical tools.

Cheers
 
We too have found that there is a yellow-green cast that is very undesirable, but have not (yet) had time to find the solution.

However, tonight I found this post from another list, by Steve Rosen, and the fun part, which I have not tested or confirmed yet, is here:


"...I had a little time this morning and ran the lens Shading.. It turns out the DEFAULT is for the Canon lenses..

It alone didn't fix the picture to my satisfaction, it got rid of the green cast - But, the thing I forgot about Panasonic from my DVX days is that they ship cameras with a LOT of chroma... So, shading, combined with dialing down the Chroma to -2 to -4 and setting the Chroma Phase at 0 to +2 pretty much fixed it.."

(Reference: http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=96302&page=2)

Also, from earlier in the thread, before the shading revelation:

"...I'm finding the color shift happening in the Cine Matrix.. If I chose Normal1 or Normal2 it is better, still testing though... With Cine Matrix on, I dialed Chroma Phase all the way up to +7 - not the best way to fix things - and the color was better - but really weird if I shoot something like a computer monitor..."

HTH.
 
Yeah, that is funny, because I am Steve Rosen... It should be noted that the above (excluding lens shading) was in reference to the manually set WB settings.. Nothing seems to totally improve the factory presets when shooting CINE-D...

As I say, I've gotten to like it for some situations... but, to me, the color is not like putting a straw gel on.. it has a cyan cast, with the emphasis on the greenish side. It is easily correctable in FCP, but again, the easiest "fix" is to dedicate one of the manual WB settings to a permanent 5600d -

I just bought an HVX as a backup, and it doesn't seem to exhibit the same cyan bias... weird...
 
Hpx500 Atw

Hpx500 Atw

Barry_Green said:
Because the preset is a preset. Imagine the number of complaints that would arise if someone set the camera on "preset", thinking that they're getting a guaranteed 5600, but not knowing that someone else had changed the color temp settings?

Preset = preset. It's 5600 or 3200. No menu settings affect that color temperature. If you want to affect the color temp, you have to use the manual or atw white balance.
Click to expand...

Does the HPX500 have an ATW setting or are you just saying in general?

Thanks,
Mike Brand
 
I had a few minutes peace this afternoon and did something I should have done a while ago...

Several weeks back I was shooting (with the 500) in Glendale CA, a few blocks from AbleCine in Burbank, so I dropped in and bought an HVX200 as a backup camera and to shoot interviews in cars. I immediately set the Scene Files to match what I had been happy with in the big camera.. When I got home and ingested footage, I was disappointed to see that the two cameras are quite different - my Canon XL H1 (at 24f) actually matches the HPX500 better than the HVX does.

So today I did a side-by-side comparison of the 200 and 500, both set at the 5600d factory preset.

Interestingly, the 200 does not have any of the cyan cast in the dayligiht preset, which is the subject of this thread - it is definitely cleaner - although of course noisier (which has been much discussed already) and 2 1/2 stops slower (likewise)...

But, also, I had to turn the Chroma up (to "0") and the Master Ped up (to -1) to come close to the 500 (at -2 and -4 respectively).

In FCP I then have to do some pretty extensive color correction in order to get shots to match if they need to be intercut (which I never do, just experimenting)...

I don't have time to post clips or stills, so you'll have to replicate this yourself - just be aware that these cameras aren't really siblings at all.
 
davhud said:
I understand that a preset is a preset but most of the pro cameras I've worked with in the past and that includes most of them have the ability to change what the preset color temp is in the menu.

It's just nice to have 4 balances you can rely on since most shoots are a variety of mixed lighting situations.

But in this case changing the color temp of the preset really wouldn't help the yellow.


It also doesn't address why somebody didn't look at this preset somewhere in the production process and say Hey that's just ugly. Let's make sure the whites are white in our preset instead of making everything look like I strapped Roscoe straw on the lens.

I have my theories as to why it's the way it is but I believe I'll wait till I've done more testing on it before floating them in a public forum.
Click to expand...

Adjust the PRST and Save it ?
 
Let me add another vote. The preset 5600 is not usable. The picture is simply too green / cyan. I've been using the HPX extensively for the last 3 months and I cannot rely on the preset. The gaffer on the shoot and I did some tests with Jokers and Divas (pure 5600) and found that doing a WB was the only way to achieve a proper color balance. Something should be done. It's clearly a flaw in the firmware. There should be an upgrade. Can Jan get some answers from the tech folks at Panasonic? Have them check it and give us a report.
 
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