DVX or HDV? XH-A1 or HVX-200?

jaypass

jaypass

Well-known member
Hello everyone,
I've been doing some research on prosumer camcorders, and was directed towards this site by someone on the Apple Final Cut Pro forum. FIgured it'd be a great place to ask some questions about purchasing my first camera...

I'm looking to get a new camera that will eventually become my main source of income. Currently I'm working for a production company, mainly as an editor, but I have done a little shooting, and will be doing more in the future. Mostly corporate stuff, but they do some entertainment marketing type shoots as well. They have two cameras there, but I'm looking to get my own so that:

A)I don't always have to go through them when working with a client
B)Eventually I plan to go totally freelance, so I'll be better prepared for that
C)Independent filmaking is an interesting possibility as well.

So far it seems like the DVX would be a great choice, but I'm weary of it due to the availability of HDV camcorders. I feel like going with a DVX would be taking a step backwards, which doesn't make sense when I'm building for my future. Does this make sense? Does the availability of cameras like the Canon XH-A1 render the purchasing of a DVX a mistake? They're so similarly priced, but I can't decide if the HDV is worth it, especially since I've heard about lot of issues with editing using the HDV codec. What about the HVX, is that worth the price jump? Very unfamiliar with P2, whats that like? Expensive I hear? Also, I'm not sure if I'm completely set-up for HD, hardware wise - I'm currently running Final Cut Studio 2 from my 17" MacBook Pro 2.33 ghz core 2 duo, 2GB of RAM. Am I even capable of HD with my current set-up? (Still looking into getting a display and external hard drive, those will come later.) I'm still new to alot of this stuff, so I'm trying to plow through compatibility issues and the tech specs of everything.

Anyway, I'm looking to finance the purchase of a camera, and am hoping that it will eventually pay for itself. I can't afford to break the bank here, being a recent college grad, but I don't want to go cheap, either. Just want to find the right camera for me, at the right price. I've looked at B&H...any other good websites or places I can check out. I know I ask alot of questions, but I want to get this right...any help anyone could provide would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Jay
 
it really depends on how much cash you have.

I don't see you needing the P2 over HDV from what you describe to me. And in all fact, the difference between the two would be more suited for those interested in green screen or extreme color grading. Otherwise HDV and P2 are similar in more respects than others. It is also a pain to work wit the P2 as it is expensive to get the workflow.

you are right aobut the dvx though, since the prices are so similar, why not get the A1? HDV will be there when you need it, and you have a higher resolution 16x9 image as the chips are native 16x9.

go for the XH A1.
 
I had the same debate with my self for months I ended up buying an A1 then a few months later another A1. I love this camera its very easy to get a great picture, and I learn more about it everytime I use it. On the other hand we are probly going to add an HVX to the mix here shortly, just because so many of the jobs thats all they want "personaly I think the HVX is a great camera but alot of it is HYPE the P2 cards arnt all that great I like the Firestores alot better my self but it all comes down to you
 
Cash wise, I don't have much. But hopefully I can find a good deal through financing...B&H has something with BillMeLater that doesn't require payments for 6 months.(Thats how I'm paying for my MacBook Pro) Seeing how I just become a full-time employee, I think I'll be able to start paying when I get there, maybe even pay the entire thing off at once. I'd say the $3000 area is my price range, and both the DVX and XH-A1 fall into that.

Looking at the Canon, I'm seeing two drawbacks. The issue with not having the same freedom of audio controls is huge, especially since I'll shoot alot of testimonials and want more freedom to prevent distortion issues. Secondly, over in the Mac forums I've read alot of people are having trouble with the HDV codec. Any comments on either of these issues? The Canon can shoot in SD anyway, right? How's it compare to the DVX SD? And 24f vs 24p?

The only drawback I've got with the DVX is the lack of HD. So I'm weighing that against the above drawbacks for the Canon. Does anyone think being able to say I'm HD ready will help my freelance career? I already know it won't do anything for my current job, we're all SD there, so I won't need any HDV for them. But in the future, will it make it easier to find clients if I can say "I have HD?" It has to sound great, right?

Thanks!
 
Yeah, I know it all comes down to me, thats the tough part, I don't feel like I know enough to make the right choice. Which maybe means I should wait...but I want to get moving on this so I can get plenty of practice. I want to know my camera inside and out before I start using it professionally. I actually ran into an issue the other day where someone in the office I was shooting started asking about the specs on my camera...It was quite embarrassing to not be able to fully answer.
 
im not sure about editing on your macbook pro, but i edit HDV on my computer here, PP2.0 without any issues at all.

I just got a version of CS3 that ill be installing soon to give that a shot, im sure its even better!

Not so sure about the problems with the audio either. I am able to record separate tracks on left and right, get good quality sound with my mics. Nothing to complain about really.

seems like a no brainer to me. You get HDV and SD on one camera, for the same price as another camera that shoots solely SD, with a lower resolution widescreen image. ( might i add )
 
Jaypass:

Any of those three cameras could potentially be the best suited camera for you. You said you don't think you know enough about the cameras to choose, and that sounds about right. You should continue to research. Each camera on your list still has a viable market desire and need. Depends on what you need. Hate to always give that answer, but it's true.

Perhaps a good thing for you to do (along with continuing to research the cameras and define your exact needs, as well as your desires for what you want your workflow to be like) would be to rent each of the cameras and try them out. At least go to a store that has them and fiddle with them some in the store there. Learn about the differences in the workflow of each camera, and the pro's and con's. Is native 16:9 high on your list? What type of editing system do you currently have, and what potential upgrades *might* you need to make to your system? Will you need to factor this into your budget? And on and on.

said:
It is also a pain to work wit the P2 as it is expensive to get the workflow.
Click to expand...

the above statement depends on the worklfow you are using.
 
Thanks for all the help.

I definitely need to decide what my "needs" are. Renting sounds like a great idea, especially so I can see what kind of results I can get with my current editing system...I think I'll need a monitor, along with a large external HD.

The audio thing I mentioned was the inability to record seperately to each track; they're combined, from what I've read. You can't control individual channel levels, or use a shotgun and another mic at the same time. Thats what I've read anyway, I don't have any experience with it, so I can't comment any further.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the DVX...its the cheapest, I have a little experience with it already, and I think its still the standard for my line of work. I don't know any freelancers doing corporate/wedding/etc work in HD. Anyone here doing that kind of thing? Again though, although I feel its not a necessity at this time, it'd be nice to have the option of going HD. Especially when it becomes standard. I wonder how long that will be...either way, such a difficult decision.

Thanks again!
 
Why not just get an HV20? Slap a Letus/Brevis on it, and you have an amazing setup for less than half the price of an HVX.
 
hv20 is not gonna go over well with your clients. I think it's a good camera for making videos with your friends, but that's all. The DVX is definitely not a step backwards. SD is still the norm and the DVX has amazing manual features, reliability, and creates stunning images. It will do well for your videography jobs, and wont require a bunch of extra editing equipment.

If you can make the price jump, go HVX. If you aren't ready for HD yet, you can still record onto SD tape, and piece together a nice p2 package/editing system over time.
 
Buy a DVX and get the Andromeda mod, it beats all the other cameras in the price range performance wise. There is a guy selling his rig for a great price over at the reel stream forum.
 
Oh, and used Andromeda systems are HARD to find. Once people see what it can do, they usually hold onto the system.
 
Thanks again for the replies.

I think I'm starting to lean towards an HVX. It seems to me that the DVX is more what I'm looking for in a camera than the Canon...aside from the lack of HD. The HVX bridges that gap, having the features I want from the DVX and HD...I'm just very clueless about tapeless workflow, P2 formats, etc, so I may bounce over to the HVX forum to get more info. Anyone here have have any workflow suggestions for Final Cut 6.0.1 with Macbook Pro and HVX200?

If I can't find a workflow/camera price to my liking, I think I'll just go with the DVX, and look into the Andromeda mod mentioned...does this produce images comparable to the HD cameras?
 
I would say its better than the other HDV cameras, as well as the stock HVX200. However I must warn you, the performance quality is dependent on the user. This system basically gives you access to unprocessed video, but thats also why its so high quality.

Here are some clip links, all shot on Andromeda:

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/special_uploads/greenscreenpromoHD.mov

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/special_uploads/leaf.mov

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/special_uploads/nautica1.mov

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/special_uploads/park_sunny.mov

http://www.chrisnuzzaco.com/special_uploads/montage_sound.mov
 
When two cameras are priced nearly the same, and one is HD and one is Standard Def, you can bet they are cutting corners somewhere on the HD camera. One example. The XH-A1 Audio compartment COMPRESSES the audio.. whereas the DVX100b doesnt and it is a much better audio compartment. That is, if you want to go directly into the camera. Thats just one example. I dont know a whole lot about the XH-A1.. but i can assure you if it cost as much as a DVX100.. then the XH-A1 is not as good as , say a HVX200. Something(s) has been sacrificed. Because of this, i decided to get the DVX100b and put some of the extra money toward a good audio system.. like the Sennheisser mkh416 and the windshields, etc. Not just spend 6,000 dollars on a camera alone, wich in my opinion, is what you have to spend to get a really good HD camera that hasnt sacrificed a whole lot.
 
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That makes alot of sense. Also, those images are quite impressive...I didn't realize the DVX could be modified to provide images like that. I'm pretty much sold on the DVX over the XH-A1, right now I'm going to look into the P2 card workflow and the HVX, to see if its worth it to step up to that now, or to wait.

Thanks again.
 
The HVX is known to have amazing preamps, and 4 channels, so external audio for the HVX isn't really necessary, I don't think.

I've seen plenty of shorts shot with the HVX, and the audio was directly into the camera, and sounded very professional.
 
I will be doing video for the web which must be top-notch quality. Can the HVX shoot to SD tape at the same quality level as the DVX? That way I can shoot for today but be protected for tomorrow (HD). I have been struggling with this for weeks now.
 
marketmd said:
Can the HVX shoot to SD tape at the same quality level as the DVX?
Click to expand...
The quick answer is: yes.

The longer answer is: if you're shooting 24p or 30p, the HVX will beat the DVX in just about all ways, especially if shooting 16:9.

If shooting 60i, the DVX will be clearer and two stops faster. But for the web you wouldn't want to shoot 60i anyway.

So for your uses, yes the HVX would give you sharper/better imagery.
 
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