MUSIC VIDEO for GEFFEN RECORDS - "Love is Wicked"

senne said:
I have no experience, but i wonder... what justifies $ 25k ? I think it's a lot of money.
The clip looks pro, but there are no fancy studios that have to be decorated or any other constructions that have to be built. Nor did you have to close down a street, etc So it is only the gear, the travelling and the hours of work.
I 've seen people on here do stuff on a 1000$ budget or less, which also looked pro.

I know it's big buisiness and companies are willing to pay a lot of money for a good video. But I just wonder how you can say that 25k is giving it away. Because in my opinion you still keep at least 17k for two weeks of work.

Please correct me if I am seriously wrong, for i have no experience at all.
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This is a commercial project, for promoting a song for a large record company, to sell records. Meaning, there's no way I can ask anyone to work on it for free. Granted we asked favors, because if this were budgeted at full rates, it would be three times the budget. ie) Hair stylist usually works for 1500/day. Choreographer at 3k / day. Makeup 1500/day. We go them for ..... anyway, here are some of the costs that may not be apparent to the unitiated:
- Director, DP, Hair, Lead Dancer, Choreographer, Stylist, Fees, airline tickets/hotel
- Customs broker, import duties and work permits
- Wardrobe
- Producer, Location Manager's Fees
- Crew Fees: 3 grips and 3 electrics, AC, PA's, AD, Drivers
- Location Fee/Permits (with Kingston's "informal" government)
- Protection money:We're not in Kansas....
- Dancers/Extras
- Meals for a 30 plus crew.
- Main location was covered with trash and goat **** - someone had to clean it
- Casting Director, on short notice you need someone to get you bodies fast
- Camera and Lighting Gear
- Art Director: Those barrels of fire didn't come with the location, string lights, etc
- Crowd Control: Outside of frame are hundreds of people that need to kept out of frame.
- Post Production: A good editor isn't cheap. Beauty work (clearing up bad skin) is a painstaking process. Color correction on DS isn't cheap. In short, if it goes to broadcast, DVC PRO HD color correction in FCP doesn't cut it. Too noisy.

Anyway, I hope this gives you an idea that we did almost "give it away". You can only do favors so many times until you run out of favors to ask and have to pay bills. Also, keep in mind, when you do something like our video, you're contractually obligated to deliver the specs on your treatment. The deadline's are tight. Miss a deadline, you can be in breach. Money pushes work through and gets things done on time. Unlike a personal or non-professional project where the deadlines are vague, you can hunt around, and wait for someone to do something for free. This was not the case.


On my site there's a spec for Epinion shot on 35mm, art direction, makeup, etc. It cost me 5 grand. Looks more "pro" than most everything on my reel. Everything but the stock, processing, transfer and edit were donated to me as a favor to push my career. My "real world" budget assessed it at about 100k and that's a conservative estimate. My thesis in grad school ran 15k. If I paid people it would've run 50k. Can't pull this off again. Favors are rarely for free.
 
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Tim Naylor said:
This is a commercial project, for promoting a song for a large record company, to sell records. Meaning, there's no way I can ask anyone to work on it for free. Granted we asked favors, because if this were budgeted at full rates, it would be three times the budget. ie) Hair stylist usually works for 1500/day. Choreographer at 3k / day. Makeup 1500/day. We go them for ..... anyway, here are some of the costs that may not be apparent to the unitiated:
- Director, DP, Hair, Lead Dancer, Choreographer, Stylist, Fees, airline tickets/hotel
- Customs broker, import duties and work permits
- Wardrobe
- Producer, Location Manager's Fees
- Crew Fees: 3 grips and 3 electrics, AC, PA's, AD, Drivers
- Location Fee/Permits (with Kingston's "informal" government)
- Protection money:We're not in Kansas....
- Dancers/Extras
- Meals for a 30 plus crew.
- Main location was covered with trash and goat shi* - someone had to clean it
- Casting Director, on short notice you need someone to get you bodies fast
- Camera and Lighting Gear
- Art Director: Those barrels of fire didn't come with the location, string lights, etc
- Crowd Control: Outside of frame are hundreds of people that need to kept out of frame.
- Post Production: A good editor isn't cheap. Beauty work (clearing up bad skin) is a painstaking process. Color correction on DS isn't cheap. In short, if it goes to broadcast, DVC PRO HD color correction in FCP doesn't cut it. Too noisy.

Anyway, I hope this gives you an idea that we did almost "give it away". You can only do favors so many times until you run out of favors to ask and have to pay bills. Also, keep in mind, when you do something like our video, you're contractually obligated to deliver the specs on your treatment. The deadline's are tight. Miss a deadline, you can be in breach. Money pushes work through and gets things done on time. Unlike a personal or non-professional project where the deadlines are vague, you can hunt around, and wait for someone to do something for free. This was not the case.


On my site there's a spec for Epinion shot on 35mm, art direction, makeup, etc. It cost me 5 grand. Looks more "pro" than most everything on my reel. Everything but the stock, processing, transfer and edit were donated to me as a favor to push my career. My "real world" budget assessed it at about 100k and that's a conservative estimate. My thesis in grad school ran 15k. If I paid people it would've run 50k. Can't pull this off again. Favors are rarely for free.
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You did NOT need all the above stuff to pull this off....

Lot's of wasted crew here.

Ask Geoff Reisner to show ya a music video he just did... low budget, and that's a VIDEO... this one was just a bunch of women dancing... and singing... nothing special.. Yes, the image was good, but that's pretty simple with an HVX in outdoor light.
 
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Well best ever music video done with the HVX to date that ive seen one these forums....
I really liked the ending with her dancing infron of that great cloud formation with the sun behind it.

Seeing this clip makes me want to go out and shot on my HVX camera again... dam you!

Good suff and thanks for shareing.
 
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TimurCivan said:
No not quite brandon. Doing things the right way costs money, especially in the corporate professional world.
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Then don't do them in the corporate world... professional, yes. Corporate, no.

Precisely the reason I was so pissed off when I was on the set of CSI... so many dang unnecessary crew members! :furious3:
 
Sounds like they were under a time crunch too.
It's better to pay someone who you know will give you results
than waste time that you don't have.
 
Well, brandon, Geffen Records corp, is where the work comes from, Tim doesnt make the music videos for fun, They want a paper trail, and they want it done yesterday, like he said, inorder to get immediate action, you have to pay everyone. A good makeup artist/Grip/DP/Producer etc... Have expensive dayrates.

Im sorry man, but i kinda think its silly to tell people they are uneccesary when clearly they are needed by the people shooting the video. And also, i think its kinda hard to say, oh hey you cant make a living because youre position is uneccesary.
 
FREUDENBERG_FILMS said:
Well best ever music video done with the HVX to date that ive seen one these forums....
I really liked the ending with her dancing infron of that great cloud formation with the sun behind it.

Seeing this clip makes me want to go out and shot on my HVX camera again... dam you!

Good suff and thanks for shareing.
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IMO this is the best I've seen. It was posted a few weeks ago.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=103142
 
I was one of the producers. As you stated, "You did NOT need all the above stuff to pull this off....Lot's of wasted crew here", I can presume you have supernatural insights such as: we have two days to put a show together in the 3rd most dangerous city in the world in it's most dangerous garrison. It's murder rate is currently 30 times that of Brooklyn. You have fourteen hours to cover three locations. After which you have less than a week to deliver an online. You also have to pay people.

So enlighten me, who or what on my list would you get rid of ? Which one of my "wasted crew" were scratchin their asses when work had to be done. You comments imply, I'm a wasteful producer, so I need to know. Who do we lose?

Would you save by replacing our armed driver for an unarmed regular? Hell, lose the driver and the locations manager. If I put my hat to the back, I can stroll the streets of Kingston and find my own locations. No one will touch an American, and everyone wants to help a filmmaker. Now what deal would you get with custom afer losing the customs broker? How much would you budget for police checkpoint bribes? How'd you negotiate our "ghetto pass" with the local Don? He's a charming fella and I'm sure he'll give a foreigner (at least a filmmaker) a great deal.

Concerning, a "bunch of dancers.." who would you cast that knows the best dancehall moves in Jamaica? Dancehall? I'll explain later. Oh, not necessary? You mean anyone will do for background and they don't need rhythm. You know, they just move around, like they do in rock videos. So you must have a the inside line for foreign production insurance in Kingston? Not necessary? You're telling me I can get a better rate for Rio. Label will totally understand when our drives go missing.

Being all knowing, I need a list for the best hair and makeup in Jamaica, who can work in 110 degree heat , get them in full makeup, add and style extensions, and then get them out of the chair in 45 minutes. Don't need it. Zits and black hair going kinky by lunch is all the rage.

Also, what rates did you have for a two to three day advance purchase on plane tickets? Hotel? Are you kidding, we can always camp. We could always save on crowd control and I could double for the AD. I'm a tough Brooklyn guy, who could just yell at 200 people in the hood to shut up. That always seems to work.

I should've gone one key grip and one gaffer, save some money here,..oh I forgot, now half our gear has been stolen because no one's at the truck and we're ten set ups behind. What? Insurance doesn't cover an unattended vehicle? What? The crowd wants to lynch our hair stylist for being openly gay - what do you mean we didn't pay for protection? Don't worry, I can do hair.....hell, I can style as well. I've an uncanny sense of up to the minute, young woman's styles, as well as do on the spot alterations.

And do tell me where I can find that independent filmmaker's community ready to give me a free hand in a country poor as dirt, you know, like the interns we exploit in LA or NYC. That'll take off the corporate edge. And I'm sure they can safely and quickly light up some oil drums, just like they taught you in film school. If not, they'll figure it out in a few hours.

Anyway, I welcome your insights for the next trip. I'm directing a feature in Pakistan,in about six months about kidnapped children forced to be camel jockey's. Love to hear your ideas on staging camel races.
__________________
Cinetim
 
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Just because a producer doesn't screw their crew doesn't mean that they're suckers. I certainly wish more producers respected their crew and the experience they bring, especially in LA.

Good video- I also especially liked the Tami Chynn clip- hot!
 
Tim Naylor said:
I was one of the producers. As you stated, "You did NOT need all the above stuff to pull this off....Lot's of wasted crew here", I can presume you have supernatural insights such as: we have two days to put a show together in the 3rd most dangerous city in the world in it's most dangerous garrison. It's murder rate is currently 30 times that of Brooklyn. You have fourteen hours to cover three locations. After which you have less than a week to deliver an online. You also have to pay people.

So enlighten me, who or what on my list would you get rid of ?

Would you save by replacing our armed drivers for an unarmed regulars? If I put my hat to the back, I could stroll around Kingston on my own and find locations. And it would be a good chance for me to practice my Jamaican patois. Ah, but I speak the langauge of film and everyone wants to lend a helping hand to a filmmaker. Now what deal would you get with the custom's broker? How much would you budget for police checkpoint bribes? How'd you negotiate our "ghetto pass" with the local Don? He's a charming fella and he always gives breaks to foreigners. Concerning, a "bunch of dancers.." who would you cast that knows the best dancehall moves in Jamaica? Dancehall? I'll explain later. Oh, they're not necessary? You mean anyone will do for background even if they don't have rhythm. You know, they can just move around.

So you must have a the inside line for foreign production insurance in Kingston? Not necessary? You're telling me I can get a better rate for Rio. Label will totally understand when our drives go missing.

Being all knowing, I need a list for the best hair and makeup in Jamaica, who can work in 110 degree heat , get them in full makeup, add and style extensions, and then get them out of the chair in 45 minutes. Don't need it. Sorry, didn't know zits and black hair going kinky by lunch is all the rage.

Also, what rates did you have for a two to three day advance purchase on plane tickets? Hotel? Are you kidding, we can always camp. We could always save on crowd control and I could double for the AD. I'm a tough Brooklyn guy, who could just yell at 200 people in the hood to shut up. That always seems to work.

I should've gone one key grip and one gaffer, save some money here,..oh I forgot, now half our gear has been stolen because no one's at the truck and we're ten set ups behind (because we left the 2nd and 3rds behind). What? Insurance doesn't cover an unattended vehicle? What? The crowd wants to lynch our hair stylist for being openly gay - what do you mean we didn't pay for protection? Don't worry, I can do hair.....and while we're at it, let's lose the stylist. If you know hair, you must be up to the minute on young ladie's clothes, be able sew, mend, take it in, let it out, make alterations on the spot... Don't worry about all that. Rock videos don't.

And do tell me where I can find that independent filmmaker's community ready to give me a free hand in a country poor as dirt, you know, like the interns we exploit in LA or NYC. That'll take off the corporate edge.

Anyway, I welcome your insights for the next trip. I'm directing a feature in Pakistan,in about six months about kidnapped children forced to be camel jockey's. Love to hear your ideas on staging camel races.
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Why argue with a cat that's obviously done quite a few professional (read label financed) gigs. This is what we all want to do...I did until I read this damn post:) A no budget joint for a friend is a pain in the ass in your own home town. I could always use more crew...or the people who said they'd show to actually show up. Even chubby hood rats with bad weaves and bad skin think they should get paid when the mf shooting the video may be doing it for nothing on the strength of exposure. I wish I had those type of favors to call in. But alot of us don't live in NY and LA where this stuff pays peoples rent and not just shooting for the next contest. Very enlightening post all the way around Tim.
 
Feel your pain. Keep plugging away. At least nowadays you can get the gear you need. Back in the day I did a film in Michigan and had to bring gear from NY. Word on the chubby hood rats with bad weaves. I've had artists try to force them on us. Another story....
 
Tim, didn't know you shot this there... but why not shoot it in LA? Just curious... I think you would have had more options as well as get great pro's for a lot less (1500 for makeup a day???)... And dude, I know about pro work... in fact, in about two to three months, I'll be producing 12-13 episodes of a TV show (Broadcast, and network quality) and I'll be having a good budget per episode, but I intend to give a lot of bang for the buck... for 25K I just expected a lot more... my OPINION... it's not gospel or law... it's a subjective OPINION. Thanks.
 
because its a Jamaican Dancehall Video.... the label and artist probably wanted it shot in Jamaica.
 
Tim:

Major props, a very polished video shot in tough circumstances. Good lighting, editing and direction. Ten years ago, this video would have cost $250,000.00, amazing you could get it done for 1/10th of that and have it look so good.

Also, you get the trophy for no unecessary slow motion shots. Seems like every R&B and Hip Hop video shot these days has half the video at 120 fps for no reason at all, other than to stretch the time so they didn't have to shoot more setups/locations.

I am leaving for Europe on Friday to shoot footage for a documentary about ancient battlefields. It is astounding how quickly US dollars get eaten up once you leave our borders, I am bringing $7,000.00 IN PETTY CASH, just to get us around the country and shoot for a week. Not to mention the flight, Carnet, trains, hotels, meals, etc. and I alone am essentially the crew. Just for a one man crew to acquire a few hours of footage, the production company will probably be spending at least $13,000.00 to $18,000.00. The U.S. dollar is sucking in comparison to the Euro and pound, our money is getting to be like Lire used to be, not worth very much.

Brandon, just out of curiosity, how many foreign locations have you produced shoots in? A $25,000.00 budget is chump change in LA for anything professional. I shoot regularly on 24 and Prison Break, you do know how big their budgets per episode are, right? And there is a reason why Prison Break had a crew of 200 last time I shot with them. They were shooting prison riots with a cast of hundreds with a very ambitious production schedule. It would have been impossible to get the mount of setups needed per day in episodic without essentially two and a half full crew working at once, one shooting and the other crew and half getting the next scenes. Sounds like Tim had a smaller version of that going on to get this one in the can.

Great work Tim!

Brandon, I sense that you haven't "been there"? (overseas shoots)

Dan
 
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