P2 Is Bad News

As I'm a little older than most, I do feel entitled to have a good old rant now and again, but I have argued the case for useful products with many talented engineers all my life. Simple ideas are usually the best, but electronics designers always want to add unwanted bells & whistles into their products. Even the humble washing machine seems to need a microprocessor and some believe it should also include a WiFi interface too. The mobile phone is another example which elevates uselessness to the point where wrinklies like me find it impossible to make a simple telephone call.

So, why is P2 bad news. It's bad news for companies such as AJA and Black Magic Design. The idea of not needing to digitise is something they would prefer to ignore. They continue to develop even more ways to digitise, whichhas resulted in the sexiest AJA IoHD device on the planet. But, it's completely useless for tapeless workflow and doesn't even have 6 analogue audio outputs. Their advertising says "In. Out. Simple", but by the time you've added audio disembbeders, it's not simple anymore and costs a fortune.

Engineers never consult the real world - they imagine what we might need and almost always miss the point. All innovations start in one guys garage. Perhaps the most noted are Apple and Microsoft, but when profits begin to rise, all they see are the shareholders and the stock market. Take a look around IBC or NAB and you'll find hundreds of innovative new products from smaller start-up companies. On the larger stands you'll only find updated or enhanced versions of earlier products - or a re-badged product recently aquired from a smaller company. The future is with the start-ups, but they are not always able to afford the necessary development costs required. The result is stagnation and not enough new products. The hardware lags the software.

So now I'm begging. I would like to see the AJAs & BMDs of this world looking at how P2 is being used. We don't need any of the bell & whistles in order to digitise every concievable source, but we would like a simple product to output & monitor the picture and sound. And, as we all strive to jump on the HD roller coaster, we'd like HD Video and Surround Sound too. A simple box with video and audio outputs at a price we are prepared to pay. Simple!

Does anyone know of an upcoming product which will attach to my Mac/PC using firewire and convert it to HDMI for my HD television and provide 6 analogue audio outputs for my 5.1 powered speakers?

Failing this, does anyone know if cryogenic freezing really works?
 
Failing this, does anyone know if cryogenic freezing really works?


I hope not, since no one nows what really happened to Adolf Hitler´s body...

Seriously, I ´m totally with you, innovation comes from those in need of sth that just isn´t offered on the market or in need to seperate themselves somehow from the big players (just to be bought by them later on :D)
It´s kind of like outsourcing your R&D, I guess...
 
I'd also like to be able transfer my P2 MXFs directly into ProRes 422, instead of having to transfer to QT-DVCPROHD and then converting it again. Obvious, I would have thought, but apparently Apple hasn't considered this yet. Oh, and I'd like to carry the HVX200 metadata through the process too.
 
hear hear!!!!!

That's all I want too!! I want to monitor Audio and video, finito, capish, that is it!!

PLEASE SOMEONE make a product like this!

- Derrick
 
I'd also like to be able transfer my P2 MXFs directly into ProRes 422, instead of having to transfer to QT-DVCPROHD and then converting it again. Obvious, I would have thought, but apparently Apple hasn't considered this yet. Oh, and I'd like to carry the HVX200 metadata through the process too.
FCP doesnt do that?! im shocked!
 
I have to half agree with your assertion. But as long as deliverables for networks are D5/HDcam, you WILL need some kind of interface box in order to do layoffs.
 
I have to half agree with your assertion. But as long as deliverables for networks are D5/HDcam, you WILL need some kind of interface box in order to do layoffs.

Exactly...this is exactly what we're going through. You need the i/o for dubs, etc. BMD makes plenty of products for output, most notably you have the Intensity which does video output in HD via HDMI for cheap. I'm assuming you have a Mac workstation and in that case you can monitor surround audio via the lightpipe connection that comes stock with all Mac workstations. No need to add 5.1 audio support to a card when your computer comes with it built in.

I would assume that this may change, but there are viable solutions on the market for what you're looking for. Something like the AJA ioHD is more niche than some of the other cards out there...FW800 and a portable unit lends itself more for laptop editing, which usually means 5.1 audio is one of the least worries with a mobile setup.
 
I was expecting to click on this link and read something simple, but my God man... :D

Oh, and about the cryogenic thing... I don't know if it works or not, but there's a guy in my apartment complex who runs around with what he calls a giant "friendly mouse" who does nothing but draw cartoons all day... he calls himself Walt... :beer:
 
I'm assuming you have a Mac workstation and in that case you can monitor surround audio via the lightpipe connection that comes stock with all Mac workstations. No need to add 5.1 audio support to a card when your computer comes with it built in.

As reported elsewhere, the Mac's optical output only sends 5.1 when replaying a Dolby encoded source, such as a DVD from DVD Player. It is not capable of sending 6 discreet channels from FCP or Soundtrack Pro.

The Black Magic Intensity card appears to fulfil the HDMI requirement, but it only sends 2 channels of audio, not 6.

The cheapest firewire solution for audio I can find is the $99 Griffin Technology FireWave. Unfortunately, these are not available in Spain, so I haven't been able to try one yet. Griffin tell me it uses Core Audio, so they see no reason why it shouldn't work. I do wonder if the sound will remain in sync with the pictures.

I'm an ex-pro making films for the fun of it and I'm not made of money. The above combination may be an affordable solution, if using a Mac Pro. It would not work with an iMac, so I'm still hoping to find a one-box product.
 
Interesting, I didn't know that. I don't deal with audio that much so that's good to know.

What about MOTU's recent video solution...they are originally a great audio interface company so I'm sure it has what you're looking for. Just read up on it quickly and it seems like a nice solution.

http://www.v3hd.com/
 
I'd also like to be able transfer my P2 MXFs directly into ProRes 422, instead of having to transfer to QT-DVCPROHD and then converting it again. Obvious, I would have thought, but apparently Apple hasn't considered this yet. Oh, and I'd like to carry the HVX200 metadata through the process too.

FCP doesnt do that?! im shocked!

If you highlight a MXF file or volume click prefernces in the "Log and Transfer Window", then ...
1187102482.jpg


... you get this option where you can import AVCHD (consumer HD codec for Sony and Panasonic, I think????) as 422 and remove pull down if applicable ... surely doing it from DVXproHD is an update or two away ... if I am understanding this correctly.
1187102501.jpg
 
Producer/Director needs post help

Producer/Director needs post help

I just received a new 16Gig P2 card and have jumped through the hoops to get it to be recoginized by the HVX 200 and my Mac...but for the life of mojo cannot figure out how to import into FCP?
I shoot at 720p/24 and all is well..I pop the card into the Dueladapter and it pops up on my desktop. now I go to FCP and log and transfer and it seems to import the clips; (as XML files ) then I try to pull them into the browser or timeline and nothing happens.

Help

Thanks,

Bud Dowdey
Sheffield Entertainment:furious3:
 
surely doing it from DVXproHD is an update or two away

Jack, I hope you're right about an update being soon, but one never knows what Apple is working on. It seems strange that they would provide a plug-in for AVCHD before DVCPROHD.

and it seems to import the clips; (as XML files )

Ken, Log & Transfer wraps the P2 Media into a QT wrapper - not XML - and puts them into the browser for you. I suspect you are doing something odd.
 
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Ken are you just trying to drag the MXF files you see in the Log and Transfer Interface into your browser or timeline?

If so, those files aren't actually imported, you are just viewing a directory. You have to drag the MXF clip to the window beneath where they are listed in the Log and Transfer interface or click the "add to queue" button below the clip playback window with the clip highlighted.

Then it will automatically show up in your browser in a QT wrapper as Mike pointed out, and only with a DVCproHD codec, as Mike and many others, including myself, bemoan.
 
raylight dudes.... Raylight.... stop all this trandsferring nonesense right now... timeline native editing can be yours NOW!
 
The reason I don't feel handicapped without Raylight is because you are supposed to make a backup copy anyway.

And I want to work with ProRes422.

I mean is anyone editing directly from a P2 card? No. You copy the P2 card to an external drive.

So you open the Log and Transfer Window ... where you can view and change the ins and outs of MXF clips ... and import to FCP, you now have QT.mov of the clip and the original P2 file on a (hopefully different) ext. Hard drive.

So I'm not gaga over raylight because I would never slap a P2 card in the PCI slot and start editing. You always copy it anyway, and then you're supposed to make a copy of the copy - which is built in to the FCP process because you have to import the file. And I don't want to work in MXF files.

Am I missing something???
 
raylight dudes.... Raylight.... stop all this trandsferring nonesense right now... timeline native editing can be yours NOW!



I'm with Timur on this one.


I was in the Apple store a few days ago, brought some footage in to see if the new FCP can import it..and it gives me errors..and I did try the Log and Transfer and it took forever for the files to become QT files.


Raylight....I click the control..what ever setting I want regarding resolution..and drag and drop the MXF file right from windows explorer after I copied the P2 card to the computer and Vegas just eats it up with no problems.

Looks like FCP is missing a few things to "natively" edit MXF files...
 
I edit off the card. i jsut made a Video art piece last night, right off the cardf. shot and edited in 4 hours.
 
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