"schism" feature length film (DVX100a)
- Thread starter John C Lyons
- Start date
Aaron Marshall
Well-known member
I love this shot:
It's haunting.
It's haunting.
John C Lyons
Veteran
editing pics...
editing pics...
Kubrick71 and Aaron, thanks for stopping by, guys!
All the sound equipment has come in, although I still need to order a "pop blocker" for the new mic and a stand. We've got a studio in the area that said we could record there (thanks Dan Donch!) so that's very cool...
Thanks for the comment on the still of Roger and Neil out on a foggy stroll. That one was done outside the nursing home, one of the many benefits of getting a location right on the lake.
I took a couple pics this morning of my editing setup...:smiley_do
Not ready to share any footage yet, but there's a couple new looks at a scene in the movie here. Very dramatic mood lighting, don't you think? I think our lighting director Mike Best has left the building, but basically we scattered candles on and off pillars around the talent, so enhanced candlelight was the look we were going for here.
So as of today I have gotten "schism" to under 2 hours at 119 mins. Almost halfway through this cut, as you can see on the closeup still probably, and hoping to export another DVD for crew review in the next few days.
I'm getting to the point now where I am killing some of my babies (scenes that I like for one reason or another but aren't really doing much for the story or for pacing). Those always hurt a little, but nothing too painful....yet!
If you guys want any specific specs or models on the stuff in these pics, just let me know, I'd be happy to share what I'm using here...
editing pics...
Kubrick71 and Aaron, thanks for stopping by, guys!
All the sound equipment has come in, although I still need to order a "pop blocker" for the new mic and a stand. We've got a studio in the area that said we could record there (thanks Dan Donch!) so that's very cool...
Thanks for the comment on the still of Roger and Neil out on a foggy stroll. That one was done outside the nursing home, one of the many benefits of getting a location right on the lake.
I took a couple pics this morning of my editing setup...:smiley_do
Not ready to share any footage yet, but there's a couple new looks at a scene in the movie here. Very dramatic mood lighting, don't you think? I think our lighting director Mike Best has left the building, but basically we scattered candles on and off pillars around the talent, so enhanced candlelight was the look we were going for here.
So as of today I have gotten "schism" to under 2 hours at 119 mins. Almost halfway through this cut, as you can see on the closeup still probably, and hoping to export another DVD for crew review in the next few days.
I'm getting to the point now where I am killing some of my babies (scenes that I like for one reason or another but aren't really doing much for the story or for pacing). Those always hurt a little, but nothing too painful....yet!
If you guys want any specific specs or models on the stuff in these pics, just let me know, I'd be happy to share what I'm using here...
Last edited:
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Wow, this is really looking great! John, what do you think the final budget will be on this film, ballpark?
MojoTrancer
Well-known member
Very nice, John. That candlelight scene is gorgeous. I'm excited to see this.
Wow, this thread was a great read!
John, what do you do for a living? If you work for an employer, instead of for yourself, how do you break the news to them that you cannot work weekends (or Tuesdays, or whatever)?
I think I speak for everyone when I say that we'd like to see some of the script! Could you upload a snippit from the cover to the inciting incident?
I'd agree that a lot of people can relate to this subject. I worked for four years in a retirement home (assisted and independent), and I never "got" how important I was in the lives of the residents. It took a movie, Assisted Living to show me that. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product... maybe discount DVDs for the posters in this thread? (hehe)
Good stuff. If you just jumped in on this thread, read it from page one!
Also, the stock lens works perfectly. Yeah, an adapter would have been nice, but it would have bogged down your crew. Is the moral of the story "Lighting before Adapters"?
John, what do you do for a living? If you work for an employer, instead of for yourself, how do you break the news to them that you cannot work weekends (or Tuesdays, or whatever)?
I think I speak for everyone when I say that we'd like to see some of the script! Could you upload a snippit from the cover to the inciting incident?
I'd agree that a lot of people can relate to this subject. I worked for four years in a retirement home (assisted and independent), and I never "got" how important I was in the lives of the residents. It took a movie, Assisted Living to show me that. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product... maybe discount DVDs for the posters in this thread? (hehe)
Good stuff. If you just jumped in on this thread, read it from page one!
Also, the stock lens works perfectly. Yeah, an adapter would have been nice, but it would have bogged down your crew. Is the moral of the story "Lighting before Adapters"?
Hey John, congrats on getting this thing in the can, man.
Looking really good.
Just re-read the whole thread from post 1. Good stuff here.
Some thoughts / Q's:
- Looks like you are on FCP now, but mentiond Premiere earlier - how was the switch?
- sound recording. Have you considered covering a corner or a closet in blankets? If you don't have hard wood floors you can deaden the room a lot by just covering all the reflective surfaces. But if you guys can build a canopy like you did, and if you have a little space in your house you could build a phonebooth size recording booth with foam or carpet remnants on the inside. Maybe you've thought of all that and it is unfeasable for some reason. But even if you are getting the recordng booth for free I would still prefers to have some set up like I mentioned because then you can work on it whenever people are available and at your leisure, etc. Just a thought, maybe you have already done the ADR.
- CC'ed stills. I like the composition of the stills and the shape the lighting is giving things. There seems to be a some milkiness and noise in the raw grabs, which I think can work for a look that may ultimately serve you, but I was wondering what the final CC looks like and if that was an issue in the final CC ... so can we get some grabs with CC please?
... or are you holding off on that until the picture is locked?
Thanks
:beer:
Looking really good.
Just re-read the whole thread from post 1. Good stuff here.
Some thoughts / Q's:
- Looks like you are on FCP now, but mentiond Premiere earlier - how was the switch?
- sound recording. Have you considered covering a corner or a closet in blankets? If you don't have hard wood floors you can deaden the room a lot by just covering all the reflective surfaces. But if you guys can build a canopy like you did, and if you have a little space in your house you could build a phonebooth size recording booth with foam or carpet remnants on the inside. Maybe you've thought of all that and it is unfeasable for some reason. But even if you are getting the recordng booth for free I would still prefers to have some set up like I mentioned because then you can work on it whenever people are available and at your leisure, etc. Just a thought, maybe you have already done the ADR.
- CC'ed stills. I like the composition of the stills and the shape the lighting is giving things. There seems to be a some milkiness and noise in the raw grabs, which I think can work for a look that may ultimately serve you, but I was wondering what the final CC looks like and if that was an issue in the final CC ... so can we get some grabs with CC please?
... or are you holding off on that until the picture is locked?Thanks
:beer:
wanted to make sure I didn't understate this.
Amazing accomplishment given the scale and budget and how many people you had on board ... hats off man :beer:
What's the September deadline? Sundance?
Amazing accomplishment given the scale and budget and how many people you had on board ... hats off man :beer:
What's the September deadline? Sundance?
Billy Pilgrim
Stye in my eye
I went back and started reading the whole thread, and needless to say, I was hooked. This is very inspiring, since I'm about to get started on my first feature. I feel like now I can probably pull it off. Not to say that it must be easy because you did it, but as Jack said, considering the scale and budget, it's truly amazing. I can't wait to get started on my project now.
John C Lyons
Veteran
"schism" budget at a glance
"schism" budget at a glance
Hi Brandon!
Ballpark budget right now is looking like this (I'll add as a recall more):
$45 copyright the script
$300 cell phone bills
$50 rent audition space for 2 days
$75 script printing
$300 blank mini dv media
$1700 kino flo diva lite 200 kit (wasnt needed, but obviously will be in future, this is the only lighting equipment i own myself at this point, but hey, its a start!)
$1200 little panny GS500 mini dv cam (for importing footage, recording auditions, behind scenes, etc)
$400 foam latex masks (materials + gas for artists to travel from tom savini fx school)
$200 external 500GB hard drive for a/v backup
$300 food for cast/crew (usually just breakfast snacks)
$100 various mailings to cast/crew
$35 mic pop filter (post)
$35 mic stand (post)
$80 sony dvd dl burner w/ lightscribe
$100 sony mdr-7506 headphones (2nd pair for post)
$370 AT-4033/CL post mic
$200 Onyx Satellite Firewire system (post)
$285 production insurance (one location required it - a military armory)
$35 PCMCIA firewire card for laptop (ADR)
$265 Cast/crew wrap party costs
-------------
estimated total budget (9/1/7): $6,075*
this might be high or low. and maybe you just wanted the grand total, but this was actually useful to me since ive never tallied it all before (so thanks for asking!). obviously im not counting stuff like everyone's gas, food, and time. but these are my costs i paid out of pocket.
*obviously i saved oodles and oodles of money b/c everyone on the cast and crew volunteered their time. which is one of the many major feats that enabled us to actually bring this project to reality. yeah, i got lucky. damn lucky.
*only one location charged us anything, and that was just that i needed production insurance (which is definitely a good idea anyhow and i wont go w/o anymore - yes, i never had any until 75% through this movie).
"schism" budget at a glance
Hi Brandon!
Ballpark budget right now is looking like this (I'll add as a recall more):
$45 copyright the script
$300 cell phone bills
$50 rent audition space for 2 days
$75 script printing
$300 blank mini dv media
$1700 kino flo diva lite 200 kit (wasnt needed, but obviously will be in future, this is the only lighting equipment i own myself at this point, but hey, its a start!)
$1200 little panny GS500 mini dv cam (for importing footage, recording auditions, behind scenes, etc)
$400 foam latex masks (materials + gas for artists to travel from tom savini fx school)
$200 external 500GB hard drive for a/v backup
$300 food for cast/crew (usually just breakfast snacks)
$100 various mailings to cast/crew
$35 mic pop filter (post)
$35 mic stand (post)
$80 sony dvd dl burner w/ lightscribe
$100 sony mdr-7506 headphones (2nd pair for post)
$370 AT-4033/CL post mic
$200 Onyx Satellite Firewire system (post)
$285 production insurance (one location required it - a military armory)
$35 PCMCIA firewire card for laptop (ADR)
$265 Cast/crew wrap party costs
-------------
estimated total budget (9/1/7): $6,075*
this might be high or low. and maybe you just wanted the grand total, but this was actually useful to me since ive never tallied it all before (so thanks for asking!). obviously im not counting stuff like everyone's gas, food, and time. but these are my costs i paid out of pocket.
*obviously i saved oodles and oodles of money b/c everyone on the cast and crew volunteered their time. which is one of the many major feats that enabled us to actually bring this project to reality. yeah, i got lucky. damn lucky.
*only one location charged us anything, and that was just that i needed production insurance (which is definitely a good idea anyhow and i wont go w/o anymore - yes, i never had any until 75% through this movie).
Last edited:
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Wow John, cool! Definitely didn't let anything go to waste. Good work in making this thing happen! I am kind of embarrassed as my budget on a spec trailer for a feature is a little over 1.5K, and you got this whole feature done for a little over 5... I am really anxious to see some stuff John! Let me know when I can check some stuff out!
John C Lyons
Veteran
Sbryan,
First, thanks for the support and great questions!
M-F 8-4:30 I work full-time for Edinboro University of PA in the Tech & Comm Dept. The rest of the time I work for Lyons Den Productions (the company my wife and I started officially in '04). That's the company we make the movies under. My EUP job pays the bills and my LDP job makes the bills. Of course I hope to change that some day. Until that time I really do work at a great place. I was actually out of filmmaking for a few years and there's been a couple people at my work that kinda got me back into it. And my bosses are very cool, I always try and put some work peeps in my movies too, they really enjoy it. "schism" was filmed evenings after work and weekends mainly. But for some stuff, like the full day we shot in the military armory, had to be done during the week, in those cases obviously I (and needed cast/crew) took vacation time. I've actually shot a couple shorts partially at EUP, so I have built a good realtionship with those in charge already, which I'm sure helps overall. And they seem to like my stuff.
Hmmmmmmmm. I think I could do that in the coming weeks. Sure! The first page of content would pretty much cover that.
Much respect to you man for having the strength to work as a caregiver. I can't even imagine. You had 4 years, I only spent about 8 months in one. It takes a very special person to do that line of work. The things and people I saw, well, the images will last forever, same for you I'm certain. Hopefully this film will give people who haven't had those experiences a tiny look inside.
I rented "Assisted Living" actually right as we were about to go into production. I thought it was pretty decent. Thought the lead was a bit "mean spirited" at times though, but that's reality too. Another movie that is barely in the ballpark but is good is "Inside I'm Dancing" or "Rory O'Shea Was Here" (there aren't many movies in this vein although Sarah Polley's "Away From Her" is supposed to be good).
Discounted DVDs, of course! But that's way waaaay down the road! :thumbsup:
I think the other 2/3's of our collective "Cinematography" credit (Mike and Dorota) would be better at answering this...
but I'll just say that I wish I had an adapter to learn it. It just hasn't been on the top of my list yet for a purchase. I've seen many people's work on the forum though with them and they have obviously proven it can be a great tool. It all helps.
For "schism" I really wanted to focus on lighting and getting the best image we could for the tools we had. And now that's clearly expanding to audio. So maybe next time around I'll either go the adapter route or maybe get a HVX or something - I'm sure you guys will let me know one way or another once I can start posting footage... :cheesy:
Last edited:
John C Lyons
Veteran
Thanks pixelated! Yeah there are about 4 or 5 deleted scenes at this point. They will be saved for extras, no doubt.
P.S. - As of an hour or so ago "schism" is down to 116 without end credits.
*Jack, I'll post replies to your stuff tomorrow! Gotta get some sleep now... Laters!
John C Lyons
Veteran
Nope, still using Premiere Pro 1.5 (screenshot is actually PP). This will be the last project with it. Hope to upgrade for future projects.
considered that, but our apartment is super tiny. the only place we could remotely record here is in the kitchen, and i dont like the thought of recording in all that stainless steel. ive never tried post sound before so i really need some help from peeps that have been working in sound for years on this one.
- CC'ed stills. I like the composition of the stills and the shape the lighting is giving things. There seems to be a some milkiness and noise in the raw grabs, which I think can work for a look that may ultimately serve you, but I was wondering what the final CC looks like and if that was an issue in the final CC ... so can we get some grabs with CC please?
im not working on CC until the picture is locked. then ill tackle sound and CC. the overall plan for the look is more high contrast than anything else. probably natural coloring/in camera color otherwise. i like the grit/grain of the DVX and hope it works for this piece like i feel it did well for Hunting Camp.
September 14th is the regular deadline for Sundance 2008. I need to get the cut as tight as I can by then (hopefully final) and ship out first week of September to be safe. It's definitely not going to have the final sound mix and by the looks of it probably just a temp soundtrack, but the image will all be there and they do take rough cuts, so....fingers crossed! But yeah, I'll keep stomping away at it until it's done done. Probably in Fall.
Jack - As always man thanks for the comments and I can't wait for your thoughts once I get some footage out there for yas. And hopefully NEXT project I can get you in there somehow!
Everyone - thanks for all the great questions. I'll keep quiet now until there's some more posts. really appreciate all the support and interest... Keep em coming, it gives me something to do when I need a break from editing!!!
Last edited:
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
So, when can we see some footage? Teaser trailer?
Teaser trailer?
Paul Coleman
Veteran
John C Lyons
Veteran
hi everyone!
the last month has been CRAZY...
this past weekend we locked picture (so no trailer yet). this week i have been researching adobe audition and the equipment i bought to do ADR (which ive never done before). starting ADR this weekend, also have the cast/crew wrap party this weekend. ill post some pics soon from that.
anyone have any ADR tips? questions? comments?
thanks for reading!
the last month has been CRAZY...
this past weekend we locked picture (so no trailer yet). this week i have been researching adobe audition and the equipment i bought to do ADR (which ive never done before). starting ADR this weekend, also have the cast/crew wrap party this weekend. ill post some pics soon from that.
anyone have any ADR tips? questions? comments?
thanks for reading!
John C Lyons
Veteran
Edit Timeline...
Edit Timeline...
So as I said before we recently locked picture on "schism"! It now runs 109 minutes without end credits. We think it's pretty damned tight. Here's a pic from the night we wrapped it up...
This time around it was really just me and Dorota Swies (who also served as DP and 1/3 of our Cinematography cred on the pic) that hammered out the edits. As you can imagine that lead to some tense moments and disagreements (mainly me thinking something was good, her seeing it and saying it wasn't, me bitching, then fixing it and seeing how much better it was). I'm confident that in the end the movie is better for it. If it was just me judging myself on the cut it would probably be 10 minutes longer and not nearly as good. Another pair of eyes that understand the material...ALWAYS a good idea.
Here's a little timeline/recap on how we reached this final cut:
As we were filming (which started the last day of September 2006) I imported all the footage and logged it in an Excel spreadsheet w/ initial notes usually no later than a day to a week after a shoot. I bought an external hard drive to keep everything on another source as well.
I worked on the full assembly cut of each scene very gradually. Not necessarily seeking the best takes but just to get a feel for length and coverage. I started this roughly around the time we broke for the Christmas holiday and completed the first full assembly DVD export on June 16, 2007. This cut was fat and ran 140 minutes.
Here's how each of the cuts/dvd exports came out from there:
Assembly Cut: 140 minutes, June 16, 2007
1st Cut: 123 minutes, July 7, 2007
2nd Cut: 114 minutes, July 27, 2007
3rd Cut: 112 minutes, August 12, 2007
4th Cut: 110 minutes, August 18, 2007
5th Cut: 109 minutes, August 20, 2007
6th Cut: 109 minutes, August 26, 2007:thumbup:
The picture is locked but there's still a ton of work left to do...
Now I'm simultaneously working on ADR (as you all already know, more on those experiences later), reviewing Andy Flatley's work on the score and testing it within the final cut, and exporting sequences from Premiere as "Filmstrips" so that I can make some visual and effects corrections/additions in Photoshop.
And this still leaves:
-creating our background/foley sounds,
-color correction,
-and probably some other things I'm forgetting at the moment.
So yeah, the edit is a big hurdle, but now it's time to put our layers of toppings and icing on this huge cake. Hopefully some ice cream will fit on the plate too, I love me some ice cream. So yeah, I'm not ready to show you guys any footage until I get some shiny end-footage for you to compare it to...
in the meantime though I can share some Wrap Party and ADR photos! that is, after i get some ice cream. I'm hungry, Brandon!
Edit Timeline...
So as I said before we recently locked picture on "schism"! It now runs 109 minutes without end credits. We think it's pretty damned tight. Here's a pic from the night we wrapped it up...
This time around it was really just me and Dorota Swies (who also served as DP and 1/3 of our Cinematography cred on the pic) that hammered out the edits. As you can imagine that lead to some tense moments and disagreements (mainly me thinking something was good, her seeing it and saying it wasn't, me bitching, then fixing it and seeing how much better it was). I'm confident that in the end the movie is better for it. If it was just me judging myself on the cut it would probably be 10 minutes longer and not nearly as good. Another pair of eyes that understand the material...ALWAYS a good idea.
Here's a little timeline/recap on how we reached this final cut:
As we were filming (which started the last day of September 2006) I imported all the footage and logged it in an Excel spreadsheet w/ initial notes usually no later than a day to a week after a shoot. I bought an external hard drive to keep everything on another source as well.
I worked on the full assembly cut of each scene very gradually. Not necessarily seeking the best takes but just to get a feel for length and coverage. I started this roughly around the time we broke for the Christmas holiday and completed the first full assembly DVD export on June 16, 2007. This cut was fat and ran 140 minutes.
Here's how each of the cuts/dvd exports came out from there:
Assembly Cut: 140 minutes, June 16, 2007
1st Cut: 123 minutes, July 7, 2007
2nd Cut: 114 minutes, July 27, 2007
3rd Cut: 112 minutes, August 12, 2007
4th Cut: 110 minutes, August 18, 2007
5th Cut: 109 minutes, August 20, 2007
6th Cut: 109 minutes, August 26, 2007:thumbup:
The picture is locked but there's still a ton of work left to do...
Now I'm simultaneously working on ADR (as you all already know, more on those experiences later), reviewing Andy Flatley's work on the score and testing it within the final cut, and exporting sequences from Premiere as "Filmstrips" so that I can make some visual and effects corrections/additions in Photoshop.
And this still leaves:
-creating our background/foley sounds,
-color correction,
-and probably some other things I'm forgetting at the moment.
So yeah, the edit is a big hurdle, but now it's time to put our layers of toppings and icing on this huge cake. Hopefully some ice cream will fit on the plate too, I love me some ice cream. So yeah, I'm not ready to show you guys any footage until I get some shiny end-footage for you to compare it to...
in the meantime though I can share some Wrap Party and ADR photos! that is, after i get some ice cream. I'm hungry, Brandon!
Last edited:
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
HA HA Nice! Cool stuff man! Can't wait to see more, and congrats on the picture lock!