I will be seriously impressed if anyone can remedy this!!

Holy Harry

Holy Harry

Well-known member
I'm using a Sennheiser ME66 with a K6 module on my HVX. I have started to shoot weddings (I know, I know... but please bear with me).

I'm having a serious problem when it comes to recording the bands playing the first dance and afterwards. Normaly we would befriend a sound engineer and use a minidisc plugged direct into the mixing desk for "proper" live gigs, and sync it in Final Cut. I don't have this facility for the most part with wedding bands... mostly they seem to operate with seperate amps and speakers and just blast it out... no mixing desk(!)

I would shoot from about 30 feet, to right up to the whites of the musicians eyes, mic on-camera. Problem is... even with levels turned way low the sound max's out and all I get is a vague concept of the music hidden beneath awful distortion. I know it's not exactly audiophile recording... but is there any way I can at least acquire acceptably audible audio? Is there some way of adjusting my current set up... or if not.. do I need to go out and buy another piece of easily set up and very portable equipment?

Like I say... fair dues to any of you guys who can sort this... !!:dankk2:
 
Can't you just record the audio signal before it reaches the speakers?

I'm sure the band has some kind of mixer, and if you put a transmitter coming on the audio-out you can put the receiver on your camera and get synced audio.

That's what I do.
 
I am shooting a band next week at a local bar and it is a similar situation. I was trying to rent a good mic for it. Unfortunatley the rental house only have shotguns available so I rented a Schoeps CMIT-5U and I am going in camera. This isn't a professional gig so I can't get a pro to record sound. There is no mixer, they go directly into the speakers.

I guess I am going to put the mic on a stand 20 feet away and point it at them. Is this pointless? Any additional suggestions would be helpful.
 
Oleg 2 said:
Buy Zoom H-4 Recorder , Place It About 10 Meters From The Stage And Press Record :-)
Click to expand...

Hey.. that sounds like a very cool device... have just checked out some reviews and listened to a couple of sample recordings and they are way better than anything I'm getting as far as live and loud goes. And it isn't too expensive, which warms my heart so much..:cheesy:

Have you used the H4 in this way Oleg?
 
bballplaya283 said:
Can't you just record the audio signal before it reaches the speakers?

I'm sure the band has some kind of mixer, and if you put a transmitter coming on the audio-out you can put the receiver on your camera and get synced audio.

That's what I do.
Click to expand...


Yes.. that is without doubt an excellent way to do it, and have done it with some gigs. Problem with weddings is you just don't know what set up is going to arrive in the door at 9pm... so I need to be prepared for worst case scenario, and really I need to be schmoozing with the camera instead of scratching my head with a bunch of country and western (the Irish version will send chills down any Willie Nelson fan's spine, believe me!) beat boxes.

Having said that... am I dreaming, or did I see an article about a device you can wrap around audio cables, which "poaches" the signal, and can be attached to a transmitter/recording device?
 
Holy Harry said:
Hey.. that sounds like a very cool device... have just checked out some reviews and listened to a couple of sample recordings and they are way better than anything I'm getting as far as live and loud goes. And it isn't too expensive, which warms my heart so much..:cheesy:

Have you used the H4 in this way Oleg?
Click to expand...
No , i use differnt stuff , but you i soppos dont need anything above
you can buy some better mics as par of oktavas an place it insted these which come with the unit - if it worth it - you need to check by your self
 
Oleg 2 said:
No , i use differnt stuff , but you i soppos dont need anything above
you can buy some better mics as par of oktavas an place it insted these which come with the unit - if it worth it - you need to check by your self
Click to expand...


I'll do that.. cool! Thanks.
 
Sounds like the sensitive shotgun is simply overdriving the levels. Have
you checked the camera mic on 3 and 4 to see how it compares? If it is less distorted, then you need a less sensitive mic able to handle high SPL's for the
camera. I have even gotten decent sound with the camera mic under just such situations since backround noise/mic noise is impossible to hear with that kind of volume level. Under most all other situations, the camera mic is useless.
 
Holy Harry said:
Normaly we would befriend a sound engineer and use a minidisc plugged direct into the mixing desk for "proper" live gigs, and sync it in Final Cut.
Click to expand...
Have you considered mic'ing the PA system with a dynamic mic? It'll give you a nice and "dry" signal, and dynamic mics tend to have extremely high max SPLs.

If you're unable to run cables from the mic'd PA to your camera, you can run the PA mic into a small portable recorder (eg. Zoom H4 or even a minidisc with a mic pre-amp) set up near the PA. In the absence of an sound person, you may have to set the levels very conservatively when the DJ does their system check, and leave the recorder to run unattended. It's not an ideal situation, but you can make it work.

You could also use a wireless system to record the mic on the PA into your camera, but at that point its probably more cost effective to hire someone to opperate the portable recorder.
 
Thanks guys - already that's a lot of solid info and advice. I'm going to spend some time checking it all out... never even occured to me to use the camera mic, for example! So that'll be an easy test to set up.

Really like the concept behind the Zoom H4 & M-Audio MicroTrack.... may be a good idea to have such a device for an extra audio capture in complex situations.

And I'll definitely look into both suggested mics... my Sennheiser may well be too sensitive for such a wall of sound.

Fantastic stuff. Thank you all - I AM impressed!
 
Look in the recording setup menu for the audio sensitivity settings for the various channels. Try toggling between -50 and -60 and see if that helps; it'll either result in lowering your levels by 10dB (which should help you tremendously) or by raising them 10dB (er... well, which wouldn't help at all...) but hey, try and see if you can use that to lower your levels by 10dB.
 
the caamera mics are worthress if you change the position or the angle of the camera during the shot
since you are doing kind of reality show :-) and may poit the lence to the one of the brides worth systers on the dance flor or anything happend on the side table
so better get source that give same kind of recording without changes during all band session.
so external fedd from the consol or par of mics pointed to the band.
forget the camera mics , even the level will be good each time you want shoot anything els there would be compromize

by the way iam selling exellent stereo mic exactly for these ocations - vp-88 :-)
 
Hey, thanks Barry... I had already consulted your book (which travels in my camera bag at all times) and dropped the levels exactly as you recommend, slight improvement, but still not in the zone.
 
Use a "pad", which is essentially a 100K resistor in line with the hot wire on the mic, and 10 ohms from there to ground at the input. Just to bleed off some of the too-hot signal to the camera. Recommended me by a sound engineer for just this purpose. This may be what the PD150 does when you switch it to "limit", which works perfectly for concerts.

You can buy a pad at pro sound places, as an XLR plug adapter, (such as Ametron in L.A.) or make your own. That way, it will cost you about fifty cents! As for the incapability of the mic itself to handle high pressure, that may still be a problem. For this, I've plugged in a simple hand-held dynamic mic instead, and generally aimed it towards the stage.

Or just put a wireless mic somewhere around the room where it sounds the best.

I still don't understand why concert sound levels have to be at the level of pain to be enjoyed, though!
 
bosindy said:
How about this mic to record a band at an event. I read a few reviews and they are positive for a low cost solution.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/happenings/419c6513f828c90d/index.html

http://www.zzounds.com/item--AUTAT2020
Click to expand...
I've been doing some background checking into my Sennheiser, and it seems to be the source of the trouble... wish I had done this research and not listened to the sales guy at my camera shop.

I really like the idea of that audio-technica... well done for finding it. The price is attractive too.
 
Just thought I should post a conclusion to this thread, in case anyone comes searching for a similar topic in the future -

After a little research on the Zoom H 4 and similar devices - I felt that the Zoom offered the greatest number of possibilities for the most attractive price - so I bought one.

All I can say is... thanks Oleg for that tip! The Zoom is a brilliant addition to my kitbag. During any live performance where connecting to a mixing desk isn't possible, I now remove my Sennheiser and strap the Zoom to the main HVX handle with velcro, set gain to "Low" and just press record, using a finger click to synch sound with the camera's on board mic. Result- very acceptable audio!

But that's only the beginning. The Zoom is an extremely versatile piece of kit. I attach it to a minipod with the supplied fitting, and I can place it very quickly into places where there isn't time to set up a wireless or wired mic. It's ability to record people who are not very good at projecting their voices, or accoustic musical instruments and so on is pretty much uncanny for such a low priced device. And in situations, such as a wedding ceremony, it's very useful when a variety of very different sounds are going to be created from a variety of different locations.

It's build is it's only let-down... very plastic and bargain bin. However, feedback from longtime users suggests it's tougher than it looks, and I'm not planning to kick it around exactly... so here's hoping.

Hell... I might even buy a second H4 it's that good.

Also switched to the camera's onboard mics during loud music... and they're a good deal more useful than the Sennheiser in that situation.

So anyway, thanks to everyone for the excellent suggestions!
 
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