cutting pages?

Wow. Tissue please!

Wow. Tissue please!

You're participation in the rant is appreciated, however flawed, and one more example of 'kick 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down' approach to harvesting your own warm fuzzies.

Nice to know there is still a sense of camaraderie amongst humans, let alone filmmakers. Hope it isn't you that needs to pull me from a burning building someday.

EXT. BURNING BULDING - NIGHT

STEFAN
Oh look! A human that needs help!

STEFAN'S FRIEND
I thought we had a diatribe to polish. Quirky and hopefully amusing in its clever-like writing.

STEFAN
I nearly forgot in all this excitement. Wait, let me kick the hope out of this guy first.

Stefan enters the burning building.

Misled into thinking these were to be heroic feats they would witness; selfless concern for a fellow human, best viewed from a safe and sanitary distance, the spectators cheered.

SPECTATORS
Woopie!

INT. BURNING BUILDING - NIGHT

The burning man sees Stefan approach, reaches out.

BURNING MAN
Oh god bless you, man!

STEFAN
I'm not here to help you, oh ignorant one who yields no hope. Your own damn fault you're in here anyways. If I save you now, you'll just do something stupid like this again. Need to nip you in the bud.

Stefan stomps the hapless victim into the ash, then exits.

EXT. BURNING BUILDING - NIGHT

Stefan rejoins his friend.

STEFAN
Exhilerating! Nothing like taking out the rif-raf.

STEFAN'S FRIEND
Wow! A real hero. For a minute there I thought you actually gave a ****.

STEFAN
Don't be ridiculous. I'm not a ''sugar-sweet-hyper-über-ultra-professional". I'm a bonafide dick-head that will do what ever it takes to who ever I need, to sell one crappy story. Gotta love life!!


Last chance, Pest. I wont ask again. You know my email.

alex
 
Alright this is getting a little intense. Pest, I encourage you to put your script out there and get some feedback-good or bad. Dvxuser is designed and maintained by some very honest, helpful and intelligent individuals (among other things). If the script is really what you say it is and you're able to convince your cynics, that says a lot about you as a writer. If your script is pretty good and your open to constructive critisism, you'll get it. Either way you either confirm what you know already or you get experienced peers to help turn it into "The Best Script Ever".
 
It would be downright uncivil of me to partake in a rebuttal, especially after such a lengthy attack on these very discussions.

I'm certain you did need a tissue, Whitty. Though I doubt the "load" came from your nose. The words "calumny," "pretentious," and "dull-witted" should never be mixed; But today, the melange fits. And it tastes like Whit.
 
StefanHaynes said:
And what are these two demigawds doing? Fighting over an individual with fewer brain cells than Artie Lange has had successful lays.

I'm not really sure why anyone is taking time with this "fellow." It's not like you owe him anything (unless you do, and in that case, GOD HELP YOU). All you're doing by even responding to him, is giving the poor whelp something to go on... something to make him go: "o gee i was gunna quit but now the internet says i good and they kep fiting over me so i gonna kep riting even tho i cant rigt my way out of a whet paper bhag lol." Stop responding to him. Stop encouraging him. Let his unwanting persona that has no interest in pursuing writing, (minus superficial, deluded involvement) fade out like a bad DV edit. Let these threads, which will forever be remembered as "DVXuser's Screenwriting's Darkest Hours," die their inevitable unheroic death.
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You criticize OldCorpse but then you mimic his opinions. Frankly, I don't get you people - either one of you. There is a reason why people keep responding to this "individual with fewer brain cells than Artie Lange has had successful lays", and a damned good reason at that. Let's remember that these boards are designed to serve just this purpose. We are artists assisting other artists in their endeavors. Tell me what is wrong with that!

Sure, this guy has other threads where he has purported to have some of the best scripts ever written, and yes, we all think that sounds crazy. But THIS thread began as a plea for help in one specific area; cutting pages. If you read the entire thread you'll see that it was not pest22o who morphed this into a discussion about something else, it was the rest of us. If you want to reply to his "best scripts ever" comments, do it on the other thread.

To address the idea that he is equal to a homeless drug addict: ridiculous. First of all, that is a complete insult, not to mention that it is a horrible analogy. The homeless guy either is or isn't an agent for the CIA. There's no talent or potential involved there, it's either fact or it's not. pest22o, on the other hand, may have some talent, even if his script in its current form is complete $h!t. There may be a strong concept and about 20-something pages of good work. Should we all just write him off because he thinks it's great even at this stage? Let me see the 1st draft of your 1st script. Let's let everyone take a look at that and determine whether or not the writer is talentless. I can tell you that mine was horrible and it was by no means an indication of my potential. I think most candid writers would admit the same.

Now, if I were Spielberg and you were Bruckheimer we might say "Screw this amateur. We've got more important things to worry about". I don't know about you, but I am neither of these men. Nor am I a person in any position to make decisions about the fate of his script. I am, however, an amateur screenwriter and I assume that others who post on this board are the same. We come here for advice, support and sometimes constructive criticism. Those who desire to offer any of these things post replies. I don't believe there is any place here for people to tell others that they should not reply. That is a direct contradiction to the spirit of this website and others like it.

I am not usually prone to rants, as they do little good. And it should be clear that this is not a personal attack on any member of this forum. I've have seen other threads whittled down to such venom (a corner this thread appears to have turned since I began writing this entry) and I take no part in that. I simply want to remind everyone that we are a community dedicated to the support of our craft. If you don't have something constructive to say, please don't say it.
 
Wow. Good points IBE - lets get this back on track. Script is too long and there are a couple of people here willing to help shorten and polish it. If I were you I'd be taking them up on it. And then I'd be posting the end result to show myself and the rest of us how stupid and ignorant we can be sometimes.
 
IBEJohnson said:
Let's remember that these boards are designed to serve just this purpose. We are artists assisting other artists in their endeavors. Tell me what is wrong with that!
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Nothing's wrong with that. And there's nothing wrong with someone pointing out (rightly, or wrongly) that in a given case the approach may be wrong. For example, if Helen Keller fashions herself the world's best DP and she's making absurd claims about some lighting scheme, there's nothing wrong with someone piping up "but the gal is blind". Nothing wrong with being blind, but maybe becoming a DP is not the best career move. It's an opinion - if wrong, then argue against that, tell us how blind people can be DP's too. But just as there's nothing wrong with encouraging the blind wannabe DP (who also thinks she's the best in the field), there's nothing wrong with someone expressing a contrary opinion. That's also assisting the artist - maybe by helping Helen Keller to become a writer instead of a DP. "Tell me what is wrong with that!".


IBEJohnson said:
Sure, this guy has other threads where he has purported to have some of the best scripts ever written, and yes, we all think that sounds crazy. But THIS thread began as a plea for help in one specific area; cutting pages. If you read the entire thread you'll see that it was not pest22o who morphed this into a discussion about something else, it was the rest of us. If you want to reply to his "best scripts ever" comments, do it on the other thread.
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Sorry, but this is absurd. You cannot isolate and limit your advice or understanding of art like that. In understanding how your advice impacts the recipient, you can only be helped by understanding where your recipient is coming from. Just as a doctor doesn't deal with just the "headache" you came in for, but takes your entire medical history into account. He's asking to cut pages - yes. But immediately, he's also telling us that he finds it unbearable to actually do any cutting because of how great his text is, and what an injustice mere rules are when confronted with with a genius who lives above the rules, and on and on - feeding right back into an extremely relevant fact that he thinks his script is the best the world has ever seen. I'd say, if you are trying to persuade someone to cut pages, you must first get them beyond the idea that he's generated Hamlet and cutting a single line is a crime. See why it's relevant?

IBEJohnson said:
To address the idea that he is equal to a homeless drug addict: ridiculous. First of all, that is a complete insult, not to mention that it is a horrible analogy. The homeless guy either is or isn't an agent for the CIA. There's no talent or potential involved there, it's either fact or it's not. pest22o, on the other hand, may have some talent, even if his script in its current form is complete $h!t. There may be a strong concept and about 20-something pages of good work.
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Far from being a horrible analogy, it is very accurate.

Here's where you go wrong: "pest22o, on the other hand, may have some talent". The odds of his having talent is equal to the odds of the homeless addict being a CIA agent. Which is why it is a great analogy. Yes, the toothless raving lunatic may in actually be putting on an act for years and in fact is hunting down terrorists in front of the local Starbucks - I guess there's a one in a trillion chance... which is the same odds that pest22o "may have some talent". But down here on earth, we can be forgiven for pointing out "nutter alarm!" (code we had at the agency for when a deluded person would walk into the foyer to be "discovered" - "NA!" [Nutter Alarm!]).


IBEJohnson said:
Should we all just write him off because he thinks it's great even at this stage? Let me see the 1st draft of your 1st script. Let's let everyone take a look at that and determine whether or not the writer is talentless. I can tell you that mine was horrible and it was by no means an indication of my potential. I think most candid writers would admit the same.
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Hmm. There's the source of the confusion, right there.

I would never "write him off because he thinks it's great even at this stage". In fact, if I may quote my part of my post from his first thread:

"Cocky can be good. If your self-confidence leads make things happen - fabulous. And I say that even if your scripts are not "the best ever". I say that even if your scripts are mediocre, or below average. You are still better off than dreamers who "could" write a better script than you, or "could" direct a better movie than you, but never actually get around to doing either. At least you wrote something, which is better than nothing these other dreamers have accomplished."

Does that sound like I'm writing him off because he thinks his script is the best ever? Pretty much misfired there, chief, huh?

From real life: I've dealt with M. Night Shyamalan long before he did "The Sixth Sense", when he was just doing re-writes on other people's scripts. He was not at all famous. And I can tell you he was always arrogant as all get out. But... he could back it up with some very strong writing.

Arrogance by itself is not a disqualifying characteristic. Of course, when it goes so far as "the best ever" I admittedly start to worry, I actually never met a working writer who claimed to be the best ever - though I did meet plenty deluded non-working ones who tried to get a meeting with an agent, who did make those claims. Still, I let that pass.

Another case: a writer with spotty grammer and iffy dialogue. He was a foreigner, and a rather talented one. Bad grammer/spelling by itself is not a disqualifying characteristic. Of course, when the writer is a native speaker, I start to worry - I've actually never met a working writer who is a native speaker who had as atrocious command of the language as pest22o, though again, I did read some of the deluded non-working ones who sent unsolicited manuscripts. Still I let that pass.

Here's the problem. Not one of those characteristics by itself disqualifies - but in aggregate - yes, absolutely they do. Sort of like evidence for anything - one piece of evidence may not mean much, but when you have a whole case from top to bottom, it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it doesn't take Sherlock to conclude "be astonished ye Gods, it's a duck!!!".

And here we have a whole raging classic of the species: insanely overblown idea of the worth of a script, insane unwillingness to cut pages as if every line is made of diamonds, lack of understanding of the rules of the craft, horrible grammar and punctuation, "nobody can direct this as well as I - they'll ruin it!" and so on. C-L-A-S-S-I-C. "Dictionary definiton" classic. Platonic ideal representation classic.

Such folks never have talent - I have never personally encountered, nor have I heard of such a case. And ask anyone who has read scripts as part of their jobs and dealt with writers, including new writers and aspiring writers. They all recognize the classic signs (I can go on: for example, odd fonts and colored paper, elaborately bound copies of the screenplay, massive stamps "copyrighted" on every page, a screenplay that's handwritten in a dirt-caked notebook etc.).

Which is why, I say, just as there are classic signs of disfunction which leads me to identify the gentleman raving in front of Starbucks as in fact mentally ill, and not a secret agent, based on experience, I identify the classic signs of a deluded guy, with just as much certainty. When you've been doing this long enough, you tend to get good at it. Just as a dog trainer can tell you: your dog is way too submissive to be a good attack dog - you, not having had the experience of the dog trainer may think "what does he know about the potential of dogkind! Especially my Puffball!". To you, it looks like an arrogant put-downer of your dog, but to him it's just a matter of facts. You may say to an architect - "wow, these soap-bubbles are beautiful, I want to build a skyscraper out of them, with people working in it and all!" The architect however, has studied materials, and says: the characteristics of a soap bubble do not allow for it to be used to build a skyscraper". So too here: the characteristics displayed, preclude pest22o from having any screenplay writing talent - and that has nothing to do with "first screenplay" etc.

You are welcome to say that I'm wrong - it's a free world. If you think there's potential there - great. I give my opinion, you give yours. Fabulous.

Now, if I were Spielberg and you were Bruckheimer we might say "Screw this amateur. We've got more important things to worry about". I don't know about you, but I am neither of these men. Nor am I a person in any position to make decisions about the fate of his script. I am, however, an amateur screenwriter and I assume that others who post on this board are the same. We come here for advice, support and sometimes constructive criticism. Those who desire to offer any of these things post replies. I don't believe there is any place here for people to tell others that they should not reply. That is a direct contradiction to the spirit of this website and others like it.

IBEJohnson said:
If you don't have something constructive to say, please don't say it.
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Quite. I guess it depends on what you think is constructive. I think I was constructive. I pointed out that it's a waste of time as the material is not suitable. That is just as valid a piece of advice as any, sometimes more. Sometimes the best advice is "start over", or "page one re-write", or "IMHO, you are not suited to becoming a DP on account of being blind" (in which case, maybe music is a better vocation). You may disagree, but that's why we have discussions. Having a different opinion is not a crime, even in those cases where you don't agree. I have tried to give constructive feedback on this site - if you go over my posting history, you'll see that I'm wildly enthusiastic sometimes, strongly critical at other times, but hey, I'm just one person, and my opinions stand on their merits (or the lack of!) - perhaps they don't seem valid to you, and that's fine, can't please everyone.

I repeat: those are just my opinions, and my way of being constructive - I think it's best for pest22o to abandon writing as he's hopeless at it, just based on the classic signs - you think differently, and I wish you the best of luck in getting whatever great potential lurks within pest22o... and I mean that sincerely - hey, everybody loves an underdog, it's a great story, especially that in this case it'll be not just an unlikely occurance, but a certifiable miracle!

However, I don't want this to turn into a flame war - which is why I don't attack posters (even though some here have attacked me), or engage in name calling - so as not to escalate this, I'm bowing out of this thread. Good luck!
 
I'll ignore the in-fighting, interesting though it may be, and simply offer this:

A good writer knows what words to put on the page. A great writer knows which ones to remove.
 
Knoxworth said:
As a Scientologist I am deeply insulted by the last post. Please lock this thread.
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I suppose this is your attempt at humor. I'm all "lawled" out for the day on Pesty, so I must sign your post with the "brutal meat-hammer of painful indignation."
 
Stefan, I enjoy watching your play. I do not wish to interupt while you continue to entertain others with this delightful persona.
 
StefanHaynes said:
fade out like a bad DV edit. Let these threads, which will forever be remembered as "DVXuser's Screenwriting's Darkest Hours," die their inevitable unheroic death. quote]

I could reply, Stefan. With a smart remark on how your response lacked any attempt to sound poetic, or how your attempt to sound smart or humorous failed miserably; and I won’t mention that if your response in any way portrays or mirrors your abilities as an entertaining writer, then maybe you should give up on that dream because that will in itself surely die and inevitable un-heroic death. But I wont have to, because if anybody that read this had an inkling if class they would have already noticed
so all I'm going so say is "that was chessy, so shut up".
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"I know it sounds cocky, but I"ve written some scripts that think are amazing I mean top notch. Everybody thinks the same about there scripts but I'm seriouse these scripts will be movies that I think people will talk about. Any idea of some productions companys that will take unsolocited synopsis or scripts?"
__________________


That's what I put in "best scripts ever" that's whats bothering everyone. My god what is wrong with some of you.
 
I think the fact that Stefan's comments are so bold and that his user name is supposedly a fullname should be evidence alone that he is an alter ego of someone hiding their identity. The guise of accountibility.

Either a preexisting member of the forums or someone who bathes in the delight of dvxusers reacting to his ridiculous "english professor verbalage." I'd rather study abroad than with some condescendingly multiculturally snobbish bore.

Take his words with less than a grain of salt. I suggest a grain of Mrs. Dash
 
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the internet reminds me of that game you play when you're like six. everybody makes a circle and puts their hands in the middle, then you try to be one with your hand on the top of the hand-pile.
 
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