Ted Arabian
Member with Ladder
Yeah, I thought that was smart of you to not fall into a "type cast" mold. I was only kidding about you cursing out Rebecca!Norm Sanders said:
"Without Provocation" - a Norm Sanders (Envision) film
- Thread starter Norm Sanders
- Start date
Charli
cool little "title"
Rebecca was the only one who showed skin, your shirt lift showed nothing.
Your acting on Daph's film was spot on, funny, light, right on the money. Here
you tried so hard to get it right, that it didn't work at all. If I didn't know better,
I'd say it was two different people acting on those two shorts.
Your acting on Daph's film was spot on, funny, light, right on the money. Here
you tried so hard to get it right, that it didn't work at all. If I didn't know better,
I'd say it was two different people acting on those two shorts.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Charli said:
You cannot compare ones acting in a comedy versus a drama... if anything, it's good you thought it was two different people, because that means Norm did a good job morphing himself into a comedy actor, and drama actor respectively.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Charli said:
Actually, the times that Norm was the MOST uptight in "Without Provocation" I felt were his best times of acting....
Eh, it's all subjective.. no sense arguing the point... Sometimes what I think is a well acted film, others think I'm crazy, AND vice-versa.... The beauty of art
Dahopafilms
Well-known member
Charli said:
Gee, maybe it was the director ...
rogar-Love(DBG): Nawwwwww.
Brandon Rice said:
Uh oh. Finding myself agreeing with Brandon here. Must revisit and try and change my mind.
Charli said:
Hey, if you want to see Norm uptight and over-the-top, you really see him in a bar at last call. He actually turns quite neanderthal.:beer:
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Oh, and Daph.... don't get me wrong! I think Norm was GREAT in Spies Girls as well! But, I don't think he was horrible in WP... I think he was just different... and when he got more tense in WP, he was better, because that is what WP called for...
RebeccaD
Well-known member
I did enjoy Norm's intensity in WP. When he yells, "Now!" at me, my reaction was real. He scared me. Lol. I also loved him in Spies Girls. It was freakin hilarious. Brian kept putting this gold reflector on him to make him look orange and I about died from laughing. It was hard to get through the scene on the first couple of takes.
Thanks all for the feedback. Herman, I love the score, man! You rock! Way to come up with something so stellar under pressure! :beer:
Thanks all for the feedback. Herman, I love the score, man! You rock! Way to come up with something so stellar under pressure! :beer:
Norm, great film. I just read through the other reviews to make sure I didn't just add more of the same, and I'm glad I did. I feel you and your cast and crew should hear some dissenting opinion.
1. I absolutely love that you went out on a limb and applied the line art look. Does it work for the film? Does the story call for it? I don't know, but I can say I think that the story doesn't NOT call for it. I didn't find it distracting. Actually, I thought it helped with the chaos. Details were washed out, while others where highlighted. I would be interested to see the "normal" version to see if it creates a different atmosphere.
2. I really don't care if those four were there to rob the place or for a poker game. It's a short film, you have to jump in on the action and can't wait for Seller and Robin to slow down and go over the details of their "mission". I got their purpose soon enough when they started freaking about the missing bonds. I think you hinted at it earlier with your play by play, but this is really a slice of life. Like we just walked into a conversation in the middle and have to play catch up. But, that's a good thing. Feature films are for backstory and exposition. This short was about how these people responded to the situation. (Disclaimer - I come to film by way of theater. Acting and directing exercises are littered with scenes that have generic dialogue or are very mundane. The challenge comes in making them about something. I am accustomed to jumping in the middle of a conversation type scenes.)
3. Maybe I'm too used to language, but I didn't feel it was over the top. In fact, I hardly noticed it. I also didn't think the acting was over the top, either. This is an intense, fast paced film. Yeah, the characters are gonna get intense. They aren't arguing about who was supposed to bring the chips to the poker game. I will say that sometimes I couldn't follow what was being said. It bothered me a little, but overall added to the anxiety.
4. I will agree that the ending kinda fizzled for me. The editing throughout was tight, fast (with a nice breath-catching slowdown with the boy). There was such a great buildup, all that tension and then if felt like it just went limp. I was worried about the mother - did she make it? I didn't know what it was that the SWAT team threw downstairs. Perhaps more back and forth between rescuing the boy and catching the bad guys?
Overall, a solid entry. It's definitely made my finalists list for re-watching and voting.
1. I absolutely love that you went out on a limb and applied the line art look. Does it work for the film? Does the story call for it? I don't know, but I can say I think that the story doesn't NOT call for it. I didn't find it distracting. Actually, I thought it helped with the chaos. Details were washed out, while others where highlighted. I would be interested to see the "normal" version to see if it creates a different atmosphere.
2. I really don't care if those four were there to rob the place or for a poker game. It's a short film, you have to jump in on the action and can't wait for Seller and Robin to slow down and go over the details of their "mission". I got their purpose soon enough when they started freaking about the missing bonds. I think you hinted at it earlier with your play by play, but this is really a slice of life. Like we just walked into a conversation in the middle and have to play catch up. But, that's a good thing. Feature films are for backstory and exposition. This short was about how these people responded to the situation. (Disclaimer - I come to film by way of theater. Acting and directing exercises are littered with scenes that have generic dialogue or are very mundane. The challenge comes in making them about something. I am accustomed to jumping in the middle of a conversation type scenes.)
3. Maybe I'm too used to language, but I didn't feel it was over the top. In fact, I hardly noticed it. I also didn't think the acting was over the top, either. This is an intense, fast paced film. Yeah, the characters are gonna get intense. They aren't arguing about who was supposed to bring the chips to the poker game. I will say that sometimes I couldn't follow what was being said. It bothered me a little, but overall added to the anxiety.
4. I will agree that the ending kinda fizzled for me. The editing throughout was tight, fast (with a nice breath-catching slowdown with the boy). There was such a great buildup, all that tension and then if felt like it just went limp. I was worried about the mother - did she make it? I didn't know what it was that the SWAT team threw downstairs. Perhaps more back and forth between rescuing the boy and catching the bad guys?
Overall, a solid entry. It's definitely made my finalists list for re-watching and voting.
Geoff_R
Veteran
I like the visual look...it was weird for the first 30 seconds but then I was digging it. Honestly, this is probably my favorite film from you. Conceptually, it works for me...a paranoid guy going after members in his own team while a SWAT team closes in on them.
You did a really good job with your performance...in fact, I liked all of the performances but yours and Rebecca's stood out the most. Rebecca totally reminded me of Trinity from the Matrix in a lot of scenes
'You're just full of good ideas." BAM!! That part rocked! The visuals, the music, the look...it all added up to a great moment in the film!
The music rocked! Herman did an awesome job on the score!
Definitely one of my favorite films from the festival!
You did a really good job with your performance...in fact, I liked all of the performances but yours and Rebecca's stood out the most. Rebecca totally reminded me of Trinity from the Matrix in a lot of scenes
'You're just full of good ideas." BAM!! That part rocked! The visuals, the music, the look...it all added up to a great moment in the film!
The music rocked! Herman did an awesome job on the score!
Definitely one of my favorite films from the festival!
Norm Sanders
Script Wrangler
Charli said:
Charli, as you can see in the film, three of our characters did reveals, which you can tell; just the angles don't show anywhere near as much skin as Rebecca's character, if any at all. Again, for the characters and/or backstory, Rebecca and I both felt the focus on her character at that moment & how she was being forced (as mentioned in this post: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=965253&postcount=75) was appropriate. Her character clearly hated having to do it. So I still don't see what you're trying to get at? :undecided:
Hootzie said:
Thanks, Hootzie, and glad you enjoyed it! If you've got specifics on a particular line of dialogue that didn't work and/or delivery, it'd be beneficial for the talent/writer to hear! Regardless, thanks again for watching & commenting!
RebeccaD said:
Yeah, that was fun. Though we get along exceptionally well, and are good friends, I think we both felt a certain sense of satisfaction of being able to just cut loose on each other as well, in the realm of those characters. :grin:
RebeccaD said:
I was SOO afraid he'd make me look like an orange Oompa-Loompa from Charlie & The Chocolate Factory, lol! Thankfully he CC'd it enough to correct it ... I'm sure he'll have some fun with the BTS, however, on the DVD.
RebeccaD said:
I second that. Cheers, Herman! To everyone else, this score is 100% Herman, with zero input from me. Typically I've always had 2-3+ drafts of a score, trying to tweak certain areas, etc. but since I was leaving the country during the week of the submission deadline, I just had to trust that our previous communications & brainstorming were enough to have us on the same page. He then got the final mix to Steve_Arm who rendered & submitted while I was out. Nice to know you've got professionals to work with & who will always look out for the greater good of the project!
Also, huge kudos to Steve_Arm for his VFX work on the gun/brain blast. Nice job, Steve, it'll be fun to show everyone the non-filtered version of that as well!
[/quote]AmyO said:
Amy, I'm so pleased that it worked for you. Thanks for watching and even more for the detailed responses, some of which I want to touch on below ...
AmyO said:
What was it in particular that made some parts difficult to understand? Was the dialogue delivered too quickly, or a SFX that got in the way, or were the levels off & the dialogue perhaps needed to be bumped up or music/SFX brought down?
AmyO said:
Since I'm hearing this more & more, I'm questioning having the film end with the bang & a ringing tone. Unfortunately, since those aren't in place now, I don't really know if that would have helped or not. But since you DO bring up concerns about wanting to know what happened to the mother, I may introduce a final clip that we had ... a CU of the mother's tape being pulled away by a gloved hand ... she asks weakly "My son?", and we hear the SWAT VO saying "He's alright ma'am". This would likely go at the end of the credits (which would speed up to accomodate), and we'd hear some intermittant gun fire perhaps & SWAT entering the room ... so we HEAR the finishes of a show-down, so to speak, or at least the SWAT capturing Seller and Robin ... then ending on the mother.
Anyone who reads the above, and thinks it would work better for the ending, please feel free to chime in!
Geoff_R said:I like the visual look...it was weird for the first 30 seconds but then I was digging it. Honestly, this is probably my favorite film from you. Conceptually, it works for me...a paranoid guy going after members in his own team while a SWAT team closes in on them.
You did a really good job with your performance...in fact, I liked all of the performances but yours and Rebecca's stood out the most. Rebecca totally reminded me of Trinity from the Matrix in a lot of scenes
'You're just full of good ideas." BAM!! That part rocked! The visuals, the music, the look...it all added up to a great moment in the film!
The music rocked! Herman did an awesome job on the score!
Definitely one of my favorite films from the festival!
Wow, thanks Geoff!! Coming from the reigning king of the last fest, I really REALLY appreciate that it worked for you so much!
Good film overall. I thought the story was pretty good and the scenes had good energy. I felt the actors played off each other pretty well. I really liked the reveal at the end.
I may be one of the lone few here, but I didn't like the visual look. It seems you were going for the "A Scanner Darkly" look and I just don't see the point. In "A Scanner Darkly" the effect they did to get this kind of look had a reason behind it because certain parts of the movie wouldn't have worked right or been possible without it (like the cloak suit). In this film I was distracted by the effect from the beginning and think it really takes away from the drama and intensity of the scenes. It would be interesting to watch this without that look and just some good ole' edgy color correction to see how it works that way.
I may be one of the lone few here, but I didn't like the visual look. It seems you were going for the "A Scanner Darkly" look and I just don't see the point. In "A Scanner Darkly" the effect they did to get this kind of look had a reason behind it because certain parts of the movie wouldn't have worked right or been possible without it (like the cloak suit). In this film I was distracted by the effect from the beginning and think it really takes away from the drama and intensity of the scenes. It would be interesting to watch this without that look and just some good ole' edgy color correction to see how it works that way.
Norm Sanders
Script Wrangler
Hi Mike, thanks for watching! If you look back, you're not alone on your feeling about the 'look' at all. I'd say it's maybe a 60/40 or 70/30 split (without actually counting) with more liking it than not, but there's still a strong voice that would rather see it without the extreme filter.
When it is up (by next week), it'll have the CC that is shown in the middle of the frames on the first page ... just enough to make things pop more (playing with levels), and just a HINT of a sickly yellow. I wanted to stay away from the traditional blue/green that tends to hit that genre, and it's a color tone that Patrick & I both felt would be different & still look good.
When it is up (by next week), it'll have the CC that is shown in the middle of the frames on the first page ... just enough to make things pop more (playing with levels), and just a HINT of a sickly yellow. I wanted to stay away from the traditional blue/green that tends to hit that genre, and it's a color tone that Patrick & I both felt would be different & still look good.
I wanted to watch this a few times before I commented. I think the affect distracted me the first time around. it works on the inanimate objects in an amazing way. The affect on the faces, I wasn't as crazy about. To many specs and lines for my taste.
I liked this film a lot. I think it builds tension in an affective way. The acting is good and that is tough in a 4 person scene like that. Kudos to your cast. Herman's score is spot on and it really adds to it. I wanted a little more at the end, but you mentioned in a post, you are adding a flash, I think that will add to it. Congrats on putting this together, especially with limited time. Good job.
I liked this film a lot. I think it builds tension in an affective way. The acting is good and that is tough in a 4 person scene like that. Kudos to your cast. Herman's score is spot on and it really adds to it. I wanted a little more at the end, but you mentioned in a post, you are adding a flash, I think that will add to it. Congrats on putting this together, especially with limited time. Good job.
jamesh
Well-known member
Sorry, i thought the line effect was very naff. made your footage look dirty and cheap. Did you use this tutorial by any chance. http://www.toolfarm.com/tutorials/wakinglife.html
I love the look of waking life & a scanner darkly as much as the next man, but thats made with teams of artists carefully hand drawing lines and filling colours for every frame, i don't think by simply applying a few photoshop filters you can get anywhere near the beauty of what those guys do, so why try. I think i would have enjoyed your film much more if it didnt have the effect. Sorry if i don't agree with what others think, i understand if you were experimenting, but for me it didn't work.
Overall i did like the story and the acting.
thanks.
I love the look of waking life & a scanner darkly as much as the next man, but thats made with teams of artists carefully hand drawing lines and filling colours for every frame, i don't think by simply applying a few photoshop filters you can get anywhere near the beauty of what those guys do, so why try. I think i would have enjoyed your film much more if it didnt have the effect. Sorry if i don't agree with what others think, i understand if you were experimenting, but for me it didn't work.
Overall i did like the story and the acting.
thanks.
RebeccaD
Well-known member
Theodore J Arabian said:And you have got the very best actress here on dvxuser in your films! Rebecca... your performance is flawless and filled with heat... both physically and in energy. Damn, I want to direct you in something!
Oh... two more things... first, how dare you speak to Rebecca like that!
Great work!
-Ted
Thanks, Ted! I would love to work with you as well! What are you doing in say, July? heh heh. The cursing was funny for both of us, actually. It was definitely a real shift from our previous roles, so we cut loose.
You know, after I posted that, I thought you might ask for specifics. Teach me not to be able to back up my criticisms. :embarasse I do plan on answering your follow up question after I watch the film again. I'm going to watch my personal top ten again to narrow down my top three, so I'll be able to let you know after that, perhaps not until tomorrow though.Norm Sanders said:
500Cuts
Member
Hey Norm... Oh the controversy! It's funny how a few of the members here seem to single you out for criticism. Many of the comments about your entry are founded, but the arrogance with which they are expressed kinda takes the fun out of it. But if it makes you feel any better, the same users employ the same attitude toward other people's projects.
Apart from that, you obviously already know what you could have done to make it better. But consider the obstacles: Shot in a day, script revisions on the fly, four speaking parts in one room, no significant rehearsals, wind storms, soggy gaff tape... I mean, it's a wonder you didn't pull the plug a dozen times.
Personally, I think your movie turned out well. I'm not a fan of the graphical treatment, but I think it rocks that you liked it enough to go ahead and do it. You know? For crying out loud, is the idea that all the films ultimately look exactly alike?
But anyway, hang in there. I'm a fan.
Co.
Apart from that, you obviously already know what you could have done to make it better. But consider the obstacles: Shot in a day, script revisions on the fly, four speaking parts in one room, no significant rehearsals, wind storms, soggy gaff tape... I mean, it's a wonder you didn't pull the plug a dozen times.
Personally, I think your movie turned out well. I'm not a fan of the graphical treatment, but I think it rocks that you liked it enough to go ahead and do it. You know? For crying out loud, is the idea that all the films ultimately look exactly alike?
But anyway, hang in there. I'm a fan.
Co.