Festival Compression - Questions / Strategies

Larry Rutledge

Larry Rutledge

Fest Master
This thread is a place to ask questions or share strategies regarding compression specific to the DVXfest.com Festivals.

If you have a question regarding the compression of your entry, please ask it here. If you have the answer to a question asked, please answer it here.

If you have a good workflow / strategy for compression using your choice in NLE and/or external tools, please post a write up here in this thread.

After the fest I will cull all the information contained in here and write it up to help future fest entrants.

If you know of any threads on DVXuser that have good instruction, information and/or tutorials on this subject, please post a link to them here as well.

Thanks,
Larry
 
Here's a reprint of Kyser's question from another thread. Please answer here:

Kyser said:
I can get a .wmv that small and still have it look good. When I use H.264 it washes out the image and the detail.

Any ideas?

Mike
Click to expand...
 
my current strategy on mac (since im one of the lucky ones that compressor never works for) is to export straight from FCP using QT conversion. You can tweak the h.264 settings and get a 480x270 file under 50 mb.

For PC guys, you can use QT pro (only 20 bucks) and accomplish the same thing.
 
Thanks hybrid.

What we really need though, is some detailed, step by step instructions using specific tools. Since this is specific to the fests, I believe this is very doable.

In other words, from FCP click "File | Export" (or whatever it is ... I probably just proved I've never seen FCP :) ), then turn on option "xyz" and turn off option "345". Set the bitrate to "???", etc, etc.

Or if you usually save in a particular format from your NLE and then compress in another tool (e.g. Compressor, etc) then give the settings you use when saving from the NLE, then all the settings used in Compressor.

The hope is that we will eventually have a library of all the different NLE and NLE/Tool combinations and the best way to get the best image for the fest.

Thanks again,
Larry
 
Larry, this is a ****ing great idea! I hope this thread turns out to be what you envision. I'm sure it would help TONS of people.
 
i started to write all that down, and then i came across this and stopped writing.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/tutorials/h264.html

That covers the exporting from quicktime pro option.

I'm running compression tests right now, so ill post my settings once i get it down close to 50 mb.


In the meantime, i posted a QT pro tutorial like this for horrorfest, I shot letterbox and used QT pro to crop out the bars as well.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=72789

It's about halway down the page and has pictures of a baby.
 
Last edited:
hybridtheory said:
i started to write all that down, and then i came across this and stopped writing.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/tutorials/h264.html

That covers the exporting from quicktime pro option.
Click to expand...
THanks for the link...but what I'm really after are fest specific settings. This is good info and I will include it, though.

I'm running compression tests right now, so ill post my settings once i get it down close to 50 mb.
Click to expand...
Cool...looking forward to the settings.

In the meantime, i posted a QT pro tutorial like this for horrorfest, I shot letterbox and used QT pro to crop out the bars as well.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=72789

It's about halway down the page and has pictures of a baby.
Click to expand...
Yes!! This is what I'm looking for. Specific instructions for FCP users. Now we just need one for Vegas, Avid, Premier, Edius, and any others I may be forgetting.

Also, there may be those who feel they get a better image by going through some process (e.g. save uncompressed from NLE, then compress in QT Pro or Sorensen, etc). If you have a workflow like that, then we'd like to get those settings as well.

My goal is to make as many tutorials available as possible, so people can use the one that best fits their situation and gives them the best possible output for their entry :)

Thanks Hybrid :thumbsup:
 
Reading through that second link hybrid posted, I see a lot of this information. However, what I realize is that we need to make sure we have screen shots (like hybrid included in his tutorial). I will be creating downloadable PDFs for each variation and I want to include screenshots of each screen/step mentioned so we can make this as through and understandable as possible.

Thanks again,
Larry
 
Sorry..thought of another thing to consider.

We also need different tutorials for each of these NLE and NLE/tool combinations depending on source material since we always need a 16:9 or 2.35:1 anamorphic output.

So if the source material is 4:3 unsqueezed, then you would work with it in your NLE and then go through some process to crop it to 16:9 and/or anamorphic. If your source material is squeezed, you would use a different process.

We want to include this information as well. Again, the goal being to provide thorough, detailed instructions for people to help them create the best entry possible.

I know I had a tough time during Hero Fest since Vegas can't produce h.264 directly. I had to render to one format, then use QT Pro to convert it to h.264 and to crop the footage so it was truly 16:9 and didn't have the black bars when played back in quicktime. If I can find my notes, I'll write this one up :)

Thanks again everyone

Peace,
Larry
 
Larry R said:
I know I had a tough time during Hero Fest since Vegas can't produce h.264 directly. I had to render to one format, then use QT Pro to convert it to h.264 and to crop the footage so it was truly 16:9 and didn't have the black bars when played back in quicktime. If I can find my notes, I'll write this one up :)
Click to expand...

Man, I really hope you can find and post those notes :)

So, the footage isn't supposed to have the black bars?

Also, how would I render Vegas 7 into QT Pro for h.264 and under 50mb? And can I buy QT Pro at a Circuit City or Best Buy?

Oh, and how much is Photoshop? Can I buy that at a Circuit City? I know we need to make a banner and stuff, and I'd really like to make a cooler banner because Windows Paint Shop isn't doin much justice.

Sorry for so many questions...

Thanks
 
FutureDVXUser said:
Man, I really hope you can find and post those notes :)
Click to expand...
It probably won't be until early next week..but I promise I will find them. :)

So, the footage isn't supposed to have the black bars?
Click to expand...
It's ok if it does, but its preferable if it doesn't (my notes will tell you how to do that)

Also, how would I render Vegas 7 into QT Pro for h.264 and under 50mb?
Click to expand...
Again, my notes will tell you how to do it...unless someone tells sooner ;)

And can I buy QT Pro at a Circuit City or Best Buy?
Click to expand...
You buy it online at http://www.quicktime.com

Oh, and how much is Photoshop? Can I buy that at a Circuit City? I know we need to make a banner and stuff, and I'd really like to make a cooler banner because Windows Paint Shop isn't doin much justice.
Click to expand...
Photoshop can be purchased at a number of online retaliers (Adobe.com, amazon.com, ebay.com, etc). I imagine it's also available at any of the electronics brick and mortar stores. Sorry, don't know the cost, but you can find it online easily enough.

There is a fairly inexpensive tool that is VERY similar to photoshop (though all the information is in French). I used it for awhile until I got my copy of photoshop and was very happy with it. http://www.photofiltre-studio.com/

The poster and banner are not required, but they are desired.

Sorry for so many questions that were probably already answered 500x...
Click to expand...
No problem...that's what we're here for :)

Peace,
Larry
 
Alright, I'll post this here, and then update with the information on my tries for Spyfest.

THIS IS A TUTORIAL TO GET A H.264 FILE FROM QUICKTIME PRO 7 OR STRAIGHT FROM FCP

MAC FOLKS, IF YOU WANT TO EXPORT STRAIGHT FROM FCP, IN FCP CHOOSE FILE>EXPORT>QUICKTIME CONVERISON>OPTIONS (ON BOTTOM) and you get the same thing, SKIP TO STEP 4.

I hate using compressor, cause it never works, and probably never will. I get that stupid "unable to connect" message no matter what i do. Regardless, this is for pc users, and for mac users that get this message whenever they try to use compressor.

1159403723.jpg


THIS IS IF YOU SHOT LETTERBOX OR SHOT 4:3 AND LETTERBOXED IN POST.

STEP 1: EXPORT A FULL RESOLUTION Quicktime or Avi from you NLE. (720x480 for DV folks, we shot HVX at 720p so I'm using a 1280x720 file)

STEP 2: Open it in Quicktime

Everyone look at my nephew mason, isn't he cute. I shot him in letterbox mode.

1159402040.jpg


STEP 3: Select "Export" from the "File" Menu

1159402095.jpg


STEP 4: Click "Options" button to bring up the "Movie Settings" Menu

1159402113.jpg


STEP 5: Click "Settings" under the Movie setting window to bring up the Standard Video Compression Settings. Choose "H.264" from the dropdown. This is the screen where you will be able to tweak settings for quality in order to make it under 50 mb, as per Jarred's order.

Notes: In order to get a smaller file, reduce the quality setting, and restrict your Data Rate.

1159402066.jpg


STEP 6: Go back to the Movie settings box and Click "Size" Click the first pulldown and select "custom" and type in "400" and "225" respectively. (This is your 16x9 file size)

STEP 7: Select the Bubble next to preserve aspect ratio, and choose "Crop" from the pulldown (This will essentially crop out the black bars from the top and the bottom)

1159402025.jpg


And that's pretty much it, give it a name and where to save, and presto, you are done! (That is, if you are under 50 mb.)

Here's the only settings I changed from the tutorial:
Bitrate: 500 kbits/sec
Quality: High
Encoding Mode: Multi-Pass

I also adjusted sound to 24 kHz from 48 and used the little endian codec.

The export at those settings was 54 MB.

HERE'S THE NEW SETTINGS I'M TRYING OUT FOR SPYFEST:
(after many tries, i went back to the "automatic" setting for a lot)

Size: 640x360
Compression: H.264
Frame Rate: Current FPS
Keyframes: Automatic
Data Rate: Automatic
Quality: Slightly Over Mediumm
Encoding: Multi-Pass

Sound-
Format: IMA 4:1
Channels: Stereo
Rate: 44.1 khz
Quality: Better

With these settings, I came out at 48.9 MB, and it looks good.

I will keep replacing these settings with better ones if i test more and more.

and if you get stuck, or actually want to know what all those dropdown boxes do, here's more info at the mac site.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/tutorials/h264.html

Larry, feel free to have someone delete my previous posts with the scattered info.
 
Last edited:
hybridtheory said:
Alright, I'll post this here, and then update with the information on my tries for Spyfest.
Click to expand...
Sorry..didn't mean to imply you had to post it here...but I'm glad you did (saved me a little work ;)

Larry, feel free to have someone delete my previous posts with the scattered info.
Click to expand...
No need...while this thread will hopefully provide people the info they need for compressing this time around. The end goal is to get the information so I can create useable tutorials to make available in the future. So the "scattered" info/posts is cool. This is like a brainstorming thread :)

Thanks again
 
Let me add this post (courtesy of Thoff) for EDIUS and QTPro:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=759673&postcount=7

I'll also add that I have been able to get pretty good results (in the 50'ish meg range) for files up to 640x360 in size using single pass, medium-ish quality. A lot of it has to do with picking the proper audio codec, and toning it down to just above a point that you start not liking the quality hit. I did a file that had good video compression that was like 960x540 in size. It was 2 minutes and less than 36 megs. The audio was pretty crappy, but with better audio and a smaller frame, it's quite possible to get a good quality h.264 .mov with EDIUS and QTPro...

Enough of that useless info. Look at Thoff's tut'. I'll try to post some of my settings that are more specific in size and time, in relation to spy fest entries, if I have time before I leave.

Jason
 
I export uncompressed out of vegas 4:3 then mp4 that puppy in QTpro.. looks fine... just when I try to chop those bars of the top and bottom it looks wierd.. would like to get those bars gone and look good also...
 
Any chance the file size restriction could be lifted just a bit, to say, 75 MB? That way we could probably get good looking 640x360 clips. I feel like 400x... is just too small.

But that's just me. :)
 
No, the restriction stands as is. The principle reason is that we have had upwards of 60 entries in some of these fests, so we try to keep the file size reasonable both for the viewers that have to download all of them and for the bandwidth providers who have to support all those downloads.

But beyond that, it is a great lesson in doing what you can to meet the requirements. Just like writing/shooting a 6 minute film is a great lesson in sticking to the relevant information so you can fit the whole story in such a short amount of time.

Yea, it would be great to have full screen versions of each film, but it's just not feasible at this time.

Peace,
Larry
 
It was raised from 40 to 50 from the last fest.... I bet if you work at it you can get a 640 x 360 within that range.... A lot of it has to do with what audio compression you choose.

I've managed 6 minute files that are that size and within the 50 meg range. That's why we told you earlier, so you can be working it out, seeking help, etc. and get the best compression possible :)

Later,
Jason
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top