jake stutheit
Active member
hillerysean said:
CinePorter™ FAQ
- Thread starter Spec-Comm
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Those of you who are predicting doom and gloom for the Cineporter are forgetting one major thing: The RAID and removable drives on the Cineporter will make a HUGE difference as far as both workflow and reliabliity.
For some workflows, being able to shoot large amounts of constant footage, stop for moments to swap a hard drive, and then continue to shoot will have an enormous benefit. And having RAID provides an additional level of comfort that your data is backed up before you even copy it.
I think there will be plenty of market for the Cineporter and also for P2 cards... possibly for both within the same workflow.
For some workflows, being able to shoot large amounts of constant footage, stop for moments to swap a hard drive, and then continue to shoot will have an enormous benefit. And having RAID provides an additional level of comfort that your data is backed up before you even copy it.
I think there will be plenty of market for the Cineporter and also for P2 cards... possibly for both within the same workflow.
Even laptop hard drives cost less than $1.00/GB, they have random access, are pretty fast, and can be put on a shelf for years. The media practically archives itself.
Being able to swap out drives and give it to the client in seconds without sending back the unit for a few weeks or voiding the warranty by doing it yourself is going to be huge for alot of people.
Being able to swap out drives and give it to the client in seconds without sending back the unit for a few weeks or voiding the warranty by doing it yourself is going to be huge for alot of people.
Considering the HVX's pricepoint in the market and its HD "limitations," wouldn't the removable drive feature be more attractive (utilized) for the likes of RED users than HVX users? The removable drive feature seems to be one that would be utilized by larger budget enterprises, which in turn, are much less likely to choose the HVX as their capturing device of choice. For the people that do choose the HVX, i think $2,600 is a considerable figure for them to address. And, a relatively easy one.
HVX users have gotten efficient in the P2 swapping process, albeit out of necessity. But, now with the introduction of the larger P2 cards, HVX-ers have much more breathing room. Swapping P2 cards isn't quite the issue it was with 4 GB cards. Considering the HVX's market pricepoint (thus its user base), i think the majority of users will "deal with" the inconvenience of P2 swapping because $2,600 can readily be used elsewhere. It's difficult to justify the luxury of having 320 GB at one's disposal for "uninterrupted" shooting.
I love what the Cineporter can do, but i feel that it comes down to value. Value is a perceptive concept and a continually evolving one. If the Cineporter debuted 6 months ago, its value would have been much different. The storage scenario landscape has changed dramatically since then, and it will be considerably different in the coming months. The longer it takes the Cineporter to debut, the more its "value" diminishes. Value is determined by weighing price, necessity, usefulness, and efficiency.
In no way am i bashing the undertaking of bringing the Cineporter to fruition. Rather, i'm observing the change in the marketplace as storage technology continues to march forward.
Product development is partly a gamble, albeit usually a well calculated one. And, timing is absolutely crucial.
A lower pricepoint for the Cineporter would make its acquisition decision a much more competitive one.
I hate to say it, but I agree. Even for long-form doc work, 16 and 32 g cards are going to really improve workflow issues, and for those of us with a stash of 8g cards, adding 2 16g cards will close the deal. Add the price of a low cost FW800 or eSATA raid, and we're still not even close to Cineporter prices. I'm not trying to blow smoke up anything, but I do think that Indy producers are going to look elsewhere. This would not have been the case last summer.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Well sure, however for us in Europe its another matter.
However folks are getting antsy - ill be visiting the states and there - waiting for me will be cheaper p2 cards (cheaper than ever before.)
I think some specific release dates would really reassure those grumbling, but of course u can only do it when u can do it as it were
However folks are getting antsy - ill be visiting the states and there - waiting for me will be cheaper p2 cards (cheaper than ever before.)
I think some specific release dates would really reassure those grumbling, but of course u can only do it when u can do it as it were
ChrisForbes
Well-known member
The reddrive uses a esata connector that carrys both data and power from the camera. The firewire and usb ports are simply to get the footage out.
But it is probably not fair to the cineporter guys to use their thread to discuss other products.
But it is probably not fair to the cineporter guys to use their thread to discuss other products.
Some Cineporter FAQ's seem to be: Is it worth it? What alternative(s) are there? What can the Cineporter do for me that another HD device cannot? Are the extra features truly necessary for relatively efficient workflow?
It's part of people putting the product "to the test" so to speak. Prospective consumers are weighing their options & mulling over their decision. The more information one has, the more informed decision one may make for oneself.
I love what the Cineporter can do, but i'm disliking the price less and less as the days go by.
It's part of people putting the product "to the test" so to speak. Prospective consumers are weighing their options & mulling over their decision. The more information one has, the more informed decision one may make for oneself.
I love what the Cineporter can do, but i'm disliking the price less and less as the days go by.
jake stutheit
Active member
911split said:
Once again, spec-comm better do something quick to get me to wanna buy one of these things. To the previous posts questions, the price of this thing is not going to be worth the extra features. Everyone who does P2 has had to develop a relatively efficient workflow due to high P2 prices. We are all now used to that workflow, and now have the luxury of much cheaper 8gb, and very soon 16gb cards with 32gb cards not too far off. Now with hoodman releasing H2 cards, and with the duel adapter out now.
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SurJones
Veteran
Hey guys,
I know you guys are getting discouraged, but DONT. The CinePorter has a lot more to offer than the Fact of price. Your not going to hand over a P2 card to the client. Those of us who have worked with BIG companies, know they want the footage at the end of the shoot. If you own a camera you are a Shooter, if you are more skilled you can call yourself a DP or Cinematographer. There is money to be made, and each will work for their own work flow. I shoot stuff where the client wants drives. I dont get to own or can use the footage I shoot (for those PAYING clients). The CinePorter for the professional is not a toy, it is a professional money making peice of engineering, engineered to make us money. (And like most of us will have it paid off after 3 or 4 day rates.) I know some Doc filmmakers go on trips out in the middle of nowhere, imagine shooting up to 800 mins of HD footage, simply a perfect solution. Then you have the firmware and hardware upgrading capabilties, soon eSata and SSD, The Cineporter will upgrade with Technology. So instead of going out and buying and re-buying the newest and latest, you simply send yours in, and WHAM, Like a whole new piece of machinery.
David and SpecComm have taken a multi million dollar risk. It WILL be a peice for the professional person who makes money and needs certain abilities and capabilities. It will be coming out very soon, as stated on the website. I would suggest just keeping a possitive attitude, and ONLY ASK QUESTIONS HERE - Creating a negative vibe and a personal opinion, might cause other to follow suit with negative opinions, which they no some people dont have all the facts. We need to give CinePorter more than a chance. And I know it will be well worth the wait. Trust me!
I know you guys are getting discouraged, but DONT. The CinePorter has a lot more to offer than the Fact of price. Your not going to hand over a P2 card to the client. Those of us who have worked with BIG companies, know they want the footage at the end of the shoot. If you own a camera you are a Shooter, if you are more skilled you can call yourself a DP or Cinematographer. There is money to be made, and each will work for their own work flow. I shoot stuff where the client wants drives. I dont get to own or can use the footage I shoot (for those PAYING clients). The CinePorter for the professional is not a toy, it is a professional money making peice of engineering, engineered to make us money. (And like most of us will have it paid off after 3 or 4 day rates.) I know some Doc filmmakers go on trips out in the middle of nowhere, imagine shooting up to 800 mins of HD footage, simply a perfect solution. Then you have the firmware and hardware upgrading capabilties, soon eSata and SSD, The Cineporter will upgrade with Technology. So instead of going out and buying and re-buying the newest and latest, you simply send yours in, and WHAM, Like a whole new piece of machinery.
David and SpecComm have taken a multi million dollar risk. It WILL be a peice for the professional person who makes money and needs certain abilities and capabilities. It will be coming out very soon, as stated on the website. I would suggest just keeping a possitive attitude, and ONLY ASK QUESTIONS HERE - Creating a negative vibe and a personal opinion, might cause other to follow suit with negative opinions, which they no some people dont have all the facts. We need to give CinePorter more than a chance. And I know it will be well worth the wait. Trust me!
Jason Ramsey
Admin
160 or 320 gigs worth of continuous HD (in any mode) is still almost worth the price of admission alone, and it will remain that way for a while for those who need that. Beyond that, there are other benefits offered by the CP. There is 72 pages worth of info. that lays out some of those benefits.
Beyond that, Spec-Comm is smart. I'm certain they have already been hard at work testing, troubleshooting, and seeing what other features they can add to the Cineporter to improve its longevity in the marketplace, and in the hands of its users. There is a balance though. Sometimes you just have to put down the paintbrush.
Youse guys are too easily discouraged
Beyond that, Spec-Comm is smart. I'm certain they have already been hard at work testing, troubleshooting, and seeing what other features they can add to the Cineporter to improve its longevity in the marketplace, and in the hands of its users. There is a balance though. Sometimes you just have to put down the paintbrush.
Youse guys are too easily discouraged
TedRR
Well-known member
I'm in the same boat. I do a fair amount of shoots where the client wants to walk out with the "footage". If I can remove the drive and send it with them it will be huge.
This will save a bunch of transferring to DVD headaches that I don't really get paid enough for.
I'll gladly have a couple extra on hand for this.
One suggestion. I'd mandate that you play some files, even through the camera, to release yourself from a client screwing up the days shoot.
I had one Network show call us and say the audio was bad on the Beta and wanted a discount.
I assurred them they were using both Wild and Lav, ch.1 & ch. 2 in post.
After they insisted they weren't I said I'd give them the discount if they returned the shoot tape.
Sure enough, audio was not hollow. They screwed up. I didn't mind the money but later let them know our performance was not flawed.
Make them review some shots before sending it with them!
This will save a bunch of transferring to DVD headaches that I don't really get paid enough for.
I'll gladly have a couple extra on hand for this.
One suggestion. I'd mandate that you play some files, even through the camera, to release yourself from a client screwing up the days shoot.
I had one Network show call us and say the audio was bad on the Beta and wanted a discount.
I assurred them they were using both Wild and Lav, ch.1 & ch. 2 in post.
After they insisted they weren't I said I'd give them the discount if they returned the shoot tape.
Sure enough, audio was not hollow. They screwed up. I didn't mind the money but later let them know our performance was not flawed.
Make them review some shots before sending it with them!
davetronic
Well-known member
I'll agree the Cineporter still offers some things that other recording mediums don't, largely removable drives. I don't think anyone is really questioning what the Cineporter can do, only that it's value to price ratio has dropped as other solutions have improved and new ones have been introduced.
As a professional DP, I'm can appreciate Spec-Comm's thoroughness, but agree with a lot of folks here - and out there - who think the time to market and price tag (1 year ago it was a different matter) are creating less excitement. And let's not forget about the ergonomics of the CP, in relation to these other solutions - namely higher capacity P2 cards. It's still a bulky solution to an already overweight HVX given the form factor (especially for doc work).
In the end, everyone will need to make their own decision based on how they will use it and what's important, but there's no mistaking the fact that the Cineporter's price to value ratio has suffered with the slow time to market.
So the question remains, what new features are being introduced that inspire signing on to the price tag? Or what pricing adjustments are going to be made to make this more attractive than it was 15 months ago?
As a professional DP, I'm can appreciate Spec-Comm's thoroughness, but agree with a lot of folks here - and out there - who think the time to market and price tag (1 year ago it was a different matter) are creating less excitement. And let's not forget about the ergonomics of the CP, in relation to these other solutions - namely higher capacity P2 cards. It's still a bulky solution to an already overweight HVX given the form factor (especially for doc work).
In the end, everyone will need to make their own decision based on how they will use it and what's important, but there's no mistaking the fact that the Cineporter's price to value ratio has suffered with the slow time to market.
So the question remains, what new features are being introduced that inspire signing on to the price tag? Or what pricing adjustments are going to be made to make this more attractive than it was 15 months ago?
Spec-Comm
DVXuser Sponsor
Just a quick note,
We hear what you folks and everyone else out there are saying and we are in the process of figuring out what we need and can do to increase the value of the CinePorter and make it attractive again to the majority of users. We understand that we are behind the market, which has moved faster than we anticipated.
Thank you for your honest remarks and your support,
David
We hear what you folks and everyone else out there are saying and we are in the process of figuring out what we need and can do to increase the value of the CinePorter and make it attractive again to the majority of users. We understand that we are behind the market, which has moved faster than we anticipated.
Thank you for your honest remarks and your support,
David
One other suggestion if engineering permits it -- form factor.
And chance of a having a Cineporter mini that takes 1.8 inch drives and mounts much more ergonomically on the cam?
Sell it was a one drive removable and make it smaller, lighter and cheaper.
And chance of a having a Cineporter mini that takes 1.8 inch drives and mounts much more ergonomically on the cam?
Sell it was a one drive removable and make it smaller, lighter and cheaper.
SurJones
Veteran
Well there have been MAJOR changes in the CinePorter in the last 15 months. I dont know if there is anything that was not added that everyone bascially demanded. Largley the Removable Drives. I think the price is fine where it's at. Paying gigs, pay off the investment.
As for weight; Well the benifit is that it doesnt have to be attached to the camera, BUT can. You can have a 6ft cable running to a belt, PA hands, or a backpak on your back.
As for weight; Well the benifit is that it doesnt have to be attached to the camera, BUT can. You can have a 6ft cable running to a belt, PA hands, or a backpak on your back.
I'm just responding to David's request to increase the value of the Cineporter and make it attractive to more users.
A lighter, cheaper, cam mounted CP was my suggestion. Thanks for the comments on not having to attach the CP to the cam.
Knew that already. Regards
A lighter, cheaper, cam mounted CP was my suggestion. Thanks for the comments on not having to attach the CP to the cam.
Knew that already. Regards
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