How do you make a living with your Camera?

D

der4

Active member
I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post this or if another section would be better.

I've read a lot of post on purchasing equipment and technical usage. What I haven't read is a lot of post on how to approach things from a business point-of-view. I personally have made a lot of my living the past two years on editing and post production work for other companies. But, I am sure that some of you are running successful businesses on your own. I thought it would be informative and fun to hear about how some of you make money doing what you love, "indie films." Who knows maybe it will give me and others on this forum some ideas such as "how to build a clientel?" Maybe a lot of you do weddings and local commercial work? Some may be rental houses?

If you have the time please post some of your stories, ideas, and suggestions.
:happy:
 
I don't. It's a very expensive hobby and I have a ton of money invested in the camera, tripod, monitors, cards, NLE's lights, and grip equipment.

But whenever i want to shoot I don't have to rent anything.....does that count as a wise business decision? ;-0
 
That's what I've done. Really all my money has been made in editing. Though, without personal tools to learn on I wouldn't be as good of an editor.

Okay Arrestthisman that's a fair question. I will modify this post.

I have produced a couple of films. I recently directed a feature for a company out of Burbank that is currently seeking distribution. It was shot on a Varicam but second unit stuff was done with the HVX. At the time I didn't own my own camera. We rented from other sources. I have worked in theatrical distribution for a major studio. But as an independent filmmaker I have spent a lot of money on gear for myself. I hope to eventually make it as an independent filmmaker. But really most my equipment up to this point has been used for personal projects. I even own and old ACL Eclair Modified Super 16mm camera that has sat in it's case for over two years. Though I don't use it I don't have the heart to sell it. It cost me so much money when I bought it years ago.
 
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This was posted elsewhere but I agree with some of it. Try to use your contacts you made through editing to crew on other projects - ask, ask, ask. Network, let people know your passion. Let them know you want to learn. On to the other post....



First, quit buying gear! Don't buy gear yet!

Not the answer you were looking for was it? Please read the rest of this post so you can buy all the gear you ever dreamed of.

Instead, invest your time and money into marketing and selling your services. Your job is to build your business, not to be a Producer, Director, Camera Operator, Filmmaker, whatever. If you build your business and treat it like a business then you'll get to do what you love; whatever that is. i.e. Produce, Direct, Camera, make films, make money and buy the cool gear....

You can always rent or borrow gear but you can never rent or borrow a customer !

Once again, repeat after me:

You can always rent or borrow gear but you can never rent or borrow a customer !

If you will follow the steps below you'll be amazed at how your business will grow and how much more you'll get to do the things you really want to do:

Get a really nice, professionally designed business card and have it printed at a real printer, not Kinko's. When you hand it off, the look, the feel of the paper and the design says more about you than you can ever say. Rest assured that Fortune 500 companies, studios and distributors don't do much business with people who have home printed cards, scruffy shoes and a non-professional approach. They'll never see you working off the corner of your kitchen table but they will see you and your card. We're talking $150 here max, not including the wardrobe.

Make 20 calls a day every day for three months to gather information about companies or individuals who you think might use or be interested in your services, skills, films or products.

This is information gathering; NOT SALES CALLS ! It's not about you or what you want to do.... yet!

Just a call to find out who they are what they do and if they use XYZ services. Don't talk about you unless they ask about you! BAD! BAD! BAD!

How do you feel when you pick up the phone and someone starts selling or telling you right off the bat? It does not work. It becomes blah, blah, blah... However, people love to tell you what they do. Listen to them and don't interupt no matter what! Usually their dime will run out and they'll say "Well, what do you do?". If you listened, you'll tell them what you do and how it relates to and BENEFITS THEM. They do not care what camera you have all they care about is what YOU can do for THEM to help them achieve their goals. It's still all about them, not you.

We use the Suspect, Prospect, Client process.

You might "Suspect" someone could be a client but until you call them you don't know. They may say, yes we use video all the time but the guy is way over priced he charges us $500 for a commercial or whatever. Well, guess what...they're not a qualified client are they? They clearly don't value the service. So they're off the list. That is a successful call for you because you know not to bother with them ever again. If you get twenty calls and not one single person has the need or the budget or whatever, then it was a very successful day. You're looking for the occasional diamond through tons of coal....right?

They may say Yes, we use Barry Green and we love his work! Well, you know Barry isn't doing it for free and they likely have seen and know good quality work. They are a qualified "Prospect". If they use your services with another reputable company, no matter how much they love the other group, they're still a qualified "Prospect". You never know when Barry might be busy or decide to write a book on widgets. You mail and keep in touch with Prospects on a regular basis. It's taken me 6-8 years for some clients to finally call. Then they become a Client.

Make 20 calls a day for three months and send your business card to the ones that respond, and drop them a postcard every 3-6 weeks. Call every few months.

In three months you'll know your market, your potential clients, who your competitors are and you'll be on your way with the foundation for a successfull business. You'll still keep making those calls but now most of them will be follow up calls on potential jobs or leads they told you about.

At the end of a year of doing this you'll have plenty of work but you'll keep doing the calls or hire someone to do them for you. Marketing and sales can never stop when you own a business. McDonalds, Coke, Sony, Panasonic all big companies with worldwide name recognition still have to do it and so do we.

Something happens when you don't market... NOTHING !

Now, at the end of that year instead of twenty information gathering calls a day you'll make ten info gathering, ten follow ups and two client calls to say hi and or thanks to your customers.

This applies and works whether you're wanting to shoot for large companies such as Disney like we do, or if you just want to get started in production carrying sandbags as a PA. If you're a PA you're running PA business, if you're a Shooter, Filmmaker or Producer that is the business you are running and you have to find, qualify and keep in touch with your prospects and clients.

The two last components I'd like to add:

Continuing Education as in workshops, training, reading, DVDs and books. After 28 years I still need to INVEST in my skills and training and sometimes what you learn from your fellow classmates is just as important as the class.

Realizing the value of hiring professional consultants who can quadruple your learning curve or better. Time is money, wasting time trying to figure out crap by trial and error, particularly technical work is a huge waste. When we bought our first HVX, my first call was to Barry Green to come on a Sunday and do a private session for our staff because we needed to shoot an important job with it the next week. Two months later when we booked another big job and bought the second HVX we flew Barry down to Florida for two days to work with our two crews and Digital Media Manager. Barry is only an example. You need training and consultants in the weakest points of your business accumen, especially the weakest points. Learning by trial and error is the most expensive and frustrating method to learn.

This system works if you work it. It's kept our little company in business for 28 years working for some of the largest clients and projects on the planet and a lot of small ones too.

You now have the answer, it's up to you to make it happen. It's still not about the gear but at least you'll have the money and projects to use it on. Statistically 95% of you will try some of this and only 5% of you will have the discipline to keep doing it. This is why only three out of 100 people survive the first five years in this business.

Now, it's all about YOU and YOU can do it if you want it bad enough.
 
It's bad enough that it's 98% bull**** but you have to post it twice?

Gear is important. Owning gear and learning by DOing, yeilds experience. I know filmmakers and who don't know an f-stop from a racial slur. I notice the don't tend to be very good...

Techies may get a little too into the gear, but knowing your gear means extracting the best quality picture.

That motivational crap would make woody allen roll over in his grave... when he dies.
 
I always suggest start going after "what you like to do" first. You won't like every job but it helps if you like the "work".
I opened my own production company 10 years ago, (check out our website in progress). www.editbay.tv I LOVE what I do.

I survived the first year or two by calling on everyone I knew. After proving myself, it's been pretty easy. But every year I look at the market and adjust.
We do mostly med-high end 30 sec spots, but have gotten into some lower end ones as the influx of inexpensive gear and an explosion of newbies, (no offense), have entered the market.
Whatever you do don't give it away because you'll be delvaluing our entire industry and trust me, it's almost impossible to raise your rates later.
I'd rather work 3-4 days at a decent rate then work 7 long days and still not pay the bills.

We also do corporate videos which I like because they give you more consecutive full days of income rather then a bunch of short days. Plus they usually don't have to be on the air "tomorrow"! :shocked:

As for renting vs. buying gear, I would rather own it. I can't imagine telling a client we have to re-schedule because the gear didn't arrive or it's broken. I don't even want to worry about that much less have that happen.
We also know our camera and with all the options in todays cameras, I want to be able to make it sing.

Just this morning we did a shoot that I found out about last night at the Las Vegas Airport. Renting would have cost me an $1,800 gig today if I couldn't have gotten the camera within those 12 hours. This isn't uncommon in today's world, (unfortunately).
Not to mention that renting cuts profit and because of early/late shoots you will often pay for rental days just to get and return it.

I know everybody has reasons for what they do, but being able to grab your "working" gear and go is a relief.

So get out there and get yourself known. DON'T talk down the competition. Let your attitude and work sell your services. One great trick is to stick your demo on a Pizza box and deliver it to a potential customer. I can almost guarantee they will watch the demo and will remember you. :happy:
 
Interesting... Is there a union of freelance video professionals?

If there isn't, there should be. Just an organization you can be affiliated with that guarantees a certian wage, and differentiates you from a college kid who'll do it in his spare time but forgets to press "render now" and blows the deadline because he was too high and got stuck at a friends house downtown with no car after a night of drug taking...

Not that that happened to me.... It's just a random scenario.

Anyway, go unions! except hollywood unions... they're all about money! Screw them. I want money me!
 
soarprod said:
This was posted elsewhere but I agree with some of it. Try to use your contacts you made through editing to crew on other projects - ask, ask, ask. Network, let people know your passion. Let them know you want to learn. On to the other post....



First, quit buying gear! Don't buy gear yet!

Not the answer you were looking for was it? Please read the rest of this post so you can buy all the gear you ever dreamed of.

Instead, invest your time and money into marketing and selling your services. Your job is to build your business, not to be a Producer, Director, Camera Operator, Filmmaker, whatever. If you build your business and treat it like a business then you'll get to do what you love; whatever that is. i.e. Produce, Direct, Camera, make films, make money and buy the cool gear....

You can always rent or borrow gear but you can never rent or borrow a customer !

Once again, repeat after me:

You can always rent or borrow gear but you can never rent or borrow a customer !

If you will follow the steps below you'll be amazed at how your business will grow and how much more you'll get to do the things you really want to do:

Get a really nice, professionally designed business card and have it printed at a real printer, not Kinko's. When you hand it off, the look, the feel of the paper and the design says more about you than you can ever say. Rest assured that Fortune 500 companies, studios and distributors don't do much business with people who have home printed cards, scruffy shoes and a non-professional approach. They'll never see you working off the corner of your kitchen table but they will see you and your card. We're talking $150 here max, not including the wardrobe.

Make 20 calls a day every day for three months to gather information about companies or individuals who you think might use or be interested in your services, skills, films or products.

This is information gathering; NOT SALES CALLS ! It's not about you or what you want to do.... yet!

Just a call to find out who they are what they do and if they use XYZ services. Don't talk about you unless they ask about you! BAD! BAD! BAD!

How do you feel when you pick up the phone and someone starts selling or telling you right off the bat? It does not work. It becomes blah, blah, blah... However, people love to tell you what they do. Listen to them and don't interupt no matter what! Usually their dime will run out and they'll say "Well, what do you do?". If you listened, you'll tell them what you do and how it relates to and BENEFITS THEM. They do not care what camera you have all they care about is what YOU can do for THEM to help them achieve their goals. It's still all about them, not you.

We use the Suspect, Prospect, Client process.

You might "Suspect" someone could be a client but until you call them you don't know. They may say, yes we use video all the time but the guy is way over priced he charges us $500 for a commercial or whatever. Well, guess what...they're not a qualified client are they? They clearly don't value the service. So they're off the list. That is a successful call for you because you know not to bother with them ever again. If you get twenty calls and not one single person has the need or the budget or whatever, then it was a very successful day. You're looking for the occasional diamond through tons of coal....right?

They may say Yes, we use Barry Green and we love his work! Well, you know Barry isn't doing it for free and they likely have seen and know good quality work. They are a qualified "Prospect". If they use your services with another reputable company, no matter how much they love the other group, they're still a qualified "Prospect". You never know when Barry might be busy or decide to write a book on widgets. You mail and keep in touch with Prospects on a regular basis. It's taken me 6-8 years for some clients to finally call. Then they become a Client.

Make 20 calls a day for three months and send your business card to the ones that respond, and drop them a postcard every 3-6 weeks. Call every few months.

In three months you'll know your market, your potential clients, who your competitors are and you'll be on your way with the foundation for a successfull business. You'll still keep making those calls but now most of them will be follow up calls on potential jobs or leads they told you about.

At the end of a year of doing this you'll have plenty of work but you'll keep doing the calls or hire someone to do them for you. Marketing and sales can never stop when you own a business. McDonalds, Coke, Sony, Panasonic all big companies with worldwide name recognition still have to do it and so do we.

Something happens when you don't market... NOTHING !

Now, at the end of that year instead of twenty information gathering calls a day you'll make ten info gathering, ten follow ups and two client calls to say hi and or thanks to your customers.

This applies and works whether you're wanting to shoot for large companies such as Disney like we do, or if you just want to get started in production carrying sandbags as a PA. If you're a PA you're running PA business, if you're a Shooter, Filmmaker or Producer that is the business you are running and you have to find, qualify and keep in touch with your prospects and clients.

The two last components I'd like to add:

Continuing Education as in workshops, training, reading, DVDs and books. After 28 years I still need to INVEST in my skills and training and sometimes what you learn from your fellow classmates is just as important as the class.

Realizing the value of hiring professional consultants who can quadruple your learning curve or better. Time is money, wasting time trying to figure out crap by trial and error, particularly technical work is a huge waste. When we bought our first HVX, my first call was to Barry Green to come on a Sunday and do a private session for our staff because we needed to shoot an important job with it the next week. Two months later when we booked another big job and bought the second HVX we flew Barry down to Florida for two days to work with our two crews and Digital Media Manager. Barry is only an example. You need training and consultants in the weakest points of your business accumen, especially the weakest points. Learning by trial and error is the most expensive and frustrating method to learn.

This system works if you work it. It's kept our little company in business for 28 years working for some of the largest clients and projects on the planet and a lot of small ones too.

You now have the answer, it's up to you to make it happen. It's still not about the gear but at least you'll have the money and projects to use it on. Statistically 95% of you will try some of this and only 5% of you will have the discipline to keep doing it. This is why only three out of 100 people survive the first five years in this business.

Now, it's all about YOU and YOU can do it if you want it bad enough.
Click to expand...
This man speaks the truth. I am currently in the process of getting investors and starting a company with my junior and from all the industry people I have talked to (especially DPs) they all told me the same thing. Do not to buy equipments.

It's a silly investment because you have to upgrade every few years due to market demand. In addition to paying for the equipment, you also have to maintain them and pay for any damages or whatever that you need to do to keep the equipment working efficiently.

There will always be lots of equipment rental houses that will supply the latest gear. Might as well let them worry about maintainence and wear and tear. And if you are a customer long enough, you will always get special rates and priority from them.

I know this veteran that has been in the video business for thirty years. He has a decently successful company and have cabinets and racks full of video cameras, monitors, and decks that are obselete. It's funny to see how cameras monitors, and decks got smaller and smaller and lighter and more compact over the years.

I also know this DP that have a very successful production company and they never bought any gear. Not a single one. They have always rented and will continue doing so.

I guess these days, the only people that are buying everything are people that want to make their own stuff and then hope to make some money by selling it.

There have also been a influx of these "one man show" guys with a camera and a computer that has been destroying the market because they are really cheap.

Most of these guys also suck but these days people just want it cheap. They don't care about quality as long as it's cheap.
 
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I own all my own gear, as my gigs are sparce and I have a good main career. Video has become a second income. I did several jobs at once, and found that I was not enjoying editing or any video work at all. I wasnt doing any fun projects that I wanted to do because it was becoming just another job to me. So now my focus has shifted more to persuing my projects than others. This is just me mind you. I used to think I wanted to change careers, but now know better. So renting gear is out of the question for me. I love being able to decide on a whim to go shoot some random footage.
 
I've just ordered my HVX...and as a full time teacher....struggled hard with the decision to buy such a professional camera (+ gear)...but then I have a passion for being creative with video...and so see the camera and the gear as an opportunity to develop a skill set, complete some creative projects in areas I believe in and see what doors open up.

In a way it is comforting to not have to rely on the camera for a living...but may well look at freeing up some time so that I can explore opportunities in the film making area....or even look at getting more involved in film / media education itself....
 
I don't make any money either, just seems like a very very expensive hobby but in hindsight it's better than a drug addiction so se la vi. I own 2 dvx's with a bunch of accessories and last year spent 2 g's on a Water housing on top of my computer and software, so i'd say i'm sitting at around 14'000 and have made exactly 2600 canadian in 2 years time. Im looking into and XL2 as well so tap on another 5' G's. Im using all of my gear to make a surf video doing all of the shooting in Nicaragua so renting was out of the question since i was living there for 6 months at a time. Give me a couple of more months and we'll see if i actually make any money from this project. :)
 
Tripods never go obsolete. Lights never go obsolete. Matte boxes and lenses never go obsolete.....should I continue? There's tons of futureproof stuff you can and should buy or all you're doing is feeding a rental house.

I know a pinhead DP who rents a grip truck at least once a month for a cost of about $650. Now go do the math on that....you can find a decent cube van for $10K or less. Why the hell would you rent it? Seems foolish to me.
 
Its really basic math at best.

Simply calculate the number of jobs you have up coming against the cost of the gear you are considering to buy or rent. If you can see your way clear in a short window of time... buy it. Then you can charge for what you were going to rent and put it into your own pocket... for the next wave of technology...
 
Seems to me renting made more sense when gear was out of the range of the average person.
I for one enjoy the spur-of-the-moment creativity aspect of owning, and though my gear my soon be obsolete by pro standards, I'll still be trying to figure out the presets.......
 
taormina said:
I don't. It's a very expensive hobby and I have a ton of money invested in the camera, tripod, monitors, cards, NLE's lights, and grip equipment.

But whenever i want to shoot I don't have to rent anything.....does that count as a wise business decision? ;-0
Click to expand...
Well, that's two of us!

I got fed up with everybody and their father telling me to rent gear (usually from them, or their friends). I decided to just buy everything and then I can do whatever the heck I please at whatever rate I please.

:2vrolijk_08:

So far, I've just filmed a dripping tap. :happy: Bwa ha ha. But, I used some nice lights on it, so it looks pretty good.
 
arrestthisman said:
It's bad enough that it's 98% bull**** but you have to post it twice?

Gear is important. Owning gear and learning by DOing, yeilds experience. I know filmmakers and who don't know an f-stop from a racial slur. I notice the don't tend to be very good...

Techies may get a little too into the gear, but knowing your gear means extracting the best quality picture.

That motivational crap would make woody allen roll over in his grave... when he dies.
Click to expand...


First of all, it's not completely unthinkable to rent equipment as opposed to buying it, so let's not jump all over soarprod for his opinions.

Let's not forget that he never said that one should only rent equipment. As a matter of fact, he owns two of his own HVXs. He was quite clear about that. His point was simple... in the beginning, don't focus your time/money/energy worrying about saving for the right equipment because it's not the equipment that will ultimately make you successful. Once you've built the business and you can justify the savings of purchasing vs. renting then go buy the equipment. From a business perspective (not a filmmaker or hobbyist perspective), he is 100% correct.

If, on the other hand, you are the type of person that wants to buy the equipment for multiple uses - an indie filmmaker who decides to get into wedding videography to make up for some of the loss spent on the camera - then what he said really doesn't apply.

Ultimately, there is nothing bull**** about what soarprod said. The only thing that's bull**** is not respecting someone else's opinions and even worse, belittling them in a public forum.

Frankly, the only beef I have with soarprod is that you live in Orange County and you refer to it as "The OC". C'mon man!!! I expect more out of you than that. The OC was a television show, not a place. :)

E
 
Theres a fine line for me between renting and buying. If I can get a job or a series of jobs to pay for equipment then its definitely bought. And sure buying it means I get even more proficient with the equipment because I get more chances to tinker with it and learn all of the nuances instead of having to give it right back to the rental house after the job. I also know some people who buy cameras and all the equipment they think they need and its all wrong and they have no clue what they are doing and shouldve rented to the mistake wouldve been cheaper at least. So it goes both ways definitely. And soarprod's reccomendation to calling and networking is a good one. Thats pretty much exactly what we do when we have downtime which luckily we dont have much of :) $$$

To answer the original poster - my camera hasnt made crap for money but my skills as an editor and producer have made me enough to have my toys. Lately we've been busy enough to hire shooters with their own cameras, but when its slow we use the HVX and shoot with it. So on occasion it does make money but its rare. I'd classify the camera and my eqpt as a hobby though it does make appearances at work and performs quite well. We're just busy enough that I edit and produce mostly.
 
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