Looking for some advice on how to end

Lt_Col_Wade said:
Hey - I think your end to the script works fine this way, but it needs some help in other areas. The beginning definitely needs some work - all Chad and his wife do is vocalize their character's motives. Dialogue like:

CHAD
Alright, I really don't have time, to look for them,
is there anyway I can borrow your car for just today.

JENNIFER
I need to drop the car off at the garage.
Don't you remember?

CHAD
Not really, but I need to get to work by 9....​


just makes me cringe. It doesn't sound natural and it's just serving your purpose to set up the story. Part of this could be covered by actions - such as Chad frantically looking for his keys once he realizes they're missing or constantly looking at his watch.

I don't even know that you need the whole intro scene - all it does is serve to let us know Chad is in a hurry and doesn't have access to a car. It also takes up a hefty amount of real estate (1.5 pages) in a pretty short script. Why not just start it with him entering the city in a cab? Plenty of people ride cabs or buses to work. We don't need to know he has a car but can't find his keys and his wife has a car but can't help him because she has to take it to the garage - it just doesn't do anything for your big picture.

I also agree with Capt. Quirk about the confrontation scene, and definitely take a second look through for typos and comma use. Sorry if it sounds like I'm being really critical - you have a good story and it would make a very good short. The ending is good, but I think you need to pay attention to the other parts now! Best of luck!
Click to expand...

You have a good point about the beginning. It was mainly to establish the character, but a lot of the stuff in there is fluff. I just figured it would be nice to have some scene with his wife to kinda establish her so later on when he's trying to get a cell phone we know exactly who she...how do you think it would serve the story best to just cut it out or shorten it? other reason the scene was in there was kinda to establish the type of lifestyle this man was living so he would fall that much harder at the end.

As far as the ally scene goes. It's a bit exaggerated but thats kinda the way the character is. Despite him wearing a suit, he's kinda cock and outspoken. The kind of person who doesn't want to take **** from someone he thinks lesser of then dirt. If it weren't to end there what other option would it leave me.

Should I just extend that whole scene and have him never find him. Then perhaps show how that effected the rest of his day? Main reason i liked it before, was because of how compressed it was. So I'm looking for that length i guess, just more sensical.

A far as the grammar, I do apologize. I wrote the script in about 2 hours because it was do the next day. I had been thinking all week, but it wasn't until that i was able to come up with something.

And yes the crane shot will be in the finished product. So sleep easy everyone.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
I think that the beginning could go both ways. I can definitely see that you wanted to establish Chad's character, but I think it could work just as well in the city.

The main reason I thought it might help to remove it was because it seems so seperate from the rest of the story and the theme of the piece. This is especially important in a short, where a seperation like this can hurt the cohesiveness of the story. With the intro taking 1.5 pages, thats a lot of real estate to not be dealing with the theme. I think from a story standpoint, opening on the city is completely believable. It also lets the whole story take place in the city, which is the prime location as far as the conflict and theme are concerned. Opening there would give you more time in it and allow you to establish Chad's character already in his world. You did a good job of establishing him as a 'suit' just by his dress compared to the others in the city - who he fits in with (especially blending in at the cross walk), which already places ideas and expectations for him in the audiences mind, and I think if you built on that you could do just as well without the seperate intro.

Of course you could keep it as well, but I would definitely shorten it up and really tighten the dialogue to only what needs to be said while showing the rest.

I dont think you need to remove the chase or have Chad not find the thief, it just needs to be reworked slightly. The way it is right now, Chad basically walks up to three thugs in an alley (one of whom is brandishing a baseball bat) and says 'hey, why dont you take the rest of my crap?'.....and they do. Not good. I get that hes a cocky mo-fo, but for him to walk up to a weapon wielding thug and invite harm upon himself seems a bit too much. Maybe make it only one or two thieves in the alley, or maybe have one of them pick up a pipe or piece of wood from a dumpster and clock him instead of having him show up to a bat fight with only strong words.

Grammar errors are to be expected from a first draft. I completely know how it is to push through an entire piece in a creative spurt. I also understand how you want it to be concise. You're already on a good start!

Of course, this is all advice so take it with a grain of salt! A bit of tweaking will tighten it to a good point - you definitely dont need a lot more work structure-wise. Best of luck!
 
Start it off with his day going to ****, bit by bit- He's shaving, and cuts himself. He's buttoning his shirt, and a button or two pop off. As he bends over to pick up his shoes his pants split. Now he's running late, and he can't find his keys. "I'm late! Have you seen my keys?" "No dear, you should hang them on the hook so..." "Yeah, yeah, yeah... let me take your car before I miss the meeting."
 
alright, so by building on the whole city thing, you mean the fact that he has to make it to a meeting by a certain time, or were you talking about something different?

Also, I have now limited the alley scene so there is only one person in there plus Chad. I'm still kinda stuck on the dialogue though. Does the dialogue work there, or is it just a bit wordy? The more I think about it, I'm not sure the thief would really respond or show any attention to Chad until maybe Chad insulted him.

Any thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Instead of the suit confronting the thug, how about this- He does chase the thug who darts down an alley. The suit follows him in, only to be jumped from behind by two hidden cohorts. When he comes to, he discovers his watch is now gone, as well as his shoes and coat, and anything else he had. No dialogue needed, other than "Hey! That's my...", before being beaten unconcious.
 
By building on the city part of it, I meant that maybe instead of focusing on developing Chad's character beforehand (at home), you might want to try doing it actually in the city. Your story's theme makes it tied to its setting in a way you don't see in all scripts, and because of this the city becomes very important to the story. Chad's house at the beginning doesn't hold the same importance - it's just a setting that is used to establish characters. Really that scene could take place anywhere (besides his wife being there). The city scenes, however, could not take place anywhere else. As such, I thought it might be a good idea to spend as much time tin the city as possible, or at least increase it proportionally to the beginning.

Or... you could keep the beginning and try to find a way to show the contrast between Chad's home - almost a refuge of sorts (albeit a prim and proper upper class refuge where he hides from the world) - and contrast that to what is seen in the city later. That might be one too many levels to try and hit though, sometimes brevity is better - especially in shorts.

Also agree with Capt. Quirk on the alley scene - that's one possible way to take it. I kind of liked the fact that Chad brought it on himself, though. Either way, I think the dialogue should be short and sweet - the more you drag out the speaking in a scene like that the more chance it has to sound wrong - let the character's actions speak just as loud as their words and compress it. Otherwise keep it up!
 
Hey guys sorry its been so long since an update. I've been really busying working on an upcoming short. Anyways depsite that I've managed to make some progress.

Before reading here are some things I want you to be thinking about:


Is Chad's character fleshed out enough? If not, what would you recommend?

The scene at the newstand, should I make the woman's purchase a little more life threatening? Perhaps she needs water for hers son who is having an ashma attack?

What do you think of the fixed ending? Could the dialoge be shortened even more?

Also does Karma work as a title? Any suggestions?

Any other changes you think I should take a look at?

Thanks a lot guys for all of you help, I truly appreciate all of your feedback. I look forward to hearing your comments.

Nick
 

Attachments

Hey, great work on the script so far! Its looking good! I didn't even notice you cut the scene at the beginning - it flows very well. I think that Chad's character is definitely fleshed out enough - you do a good job of establishing him as one of the suits. I definitely would not make the lady in line have some kind of urgent/life threatening issue for wanting the water. Right now, Chad is just one of the suits and ignores the problems and issues around him - unlikeable? Sure. An asshole? Not necessarily. If he ignored something like that he would definitely be an ass appear and much less sympathetic to the audience.

The dialogue at the end works, and the alley scene is much more believable. Some dialogue can still be trimmed in spots - like right when Chad's wallet is stolen. He has an awful lot of time for lines before Brian even starts running or tries to go around a corner. Other than that, it's mostly grammar and style issues. The story's there, but it could still use some fine tuning.

Notably, the passage: "CHAD, a man in his late thirties, wearing a black suit, exits a taxi cab. Paying the driver, JOHN, a middle-aged man dressed in a pair of jeans and a collared shirt approaches." ...leads us to believe that John is paying the driver. I know what you mean, but the way it is written is misleading.

I would also break it down into scenes. The fact that it takes place (or is to be shot) in Orlando is irrelevant to the story and you can remove that. Instead I would start each scene with Ext. Street - Morning. They way it is structured now is as one extended scene (which isn't actually the case from a story or shooting stadpoint).

In addition, I would rethink naming all of your characters. The guy who asks for change in the beginning, the lady behind Chad in line, the thief and the stand owner don't really need to be named. We learn nothing about them and noone calls them by name. A simple MAN, or WOMAN, or THIEF or OWNER would do just fine, and it reminds us of their role in the script. It can get confusing with so many names attached to small characters in a short time. Who is Brian again? Oh yea, the thief.

But overall its looking great! Some fine tuning and youll have a tight little script. Great job so far and good luck!
 
Hey, great work on the script so far! Its looking good! I didn't even notice you cut the scene at the beginning - it flows very well. I think that Chad's character is definitely fleshed out enough - you do a good job of establishing him as one of the suits. I definitely would not make the lady in line have some kind of urgent/life threatening issue for wanting the water. Right now, Chad is just one of the suits and ignores the problems and issues around him - unlikeable? Sure. An asshole? Not necessarily. If he ignored something like that he would definitely be an ass appear and much less sympathetic to the audience.

The dialogue at the end works, and the alley scene is much more believable. Some dialogue can still be trimmed in spots - like right when Chad's wallet is stolen. He has an awful lot of time for lines before Brian even starts running or tries to go around a corner. Other than that, it's mostly grammar and style issues. The story's there, but it could still use some fine tuning.

Notably, the passage: "CHAD, a man in his late thirties, wearing a black suit, exits a taxi cab. Paying the driver, JOHN, a middle-aged man dressed in a pair of jeans and a collared shirt approaches." ...leads us to believe that John is paying the driver. I know what you mean, but the way it is written is misleading.

I would also break it down into scenes. The fact that it takes place (or is to be shot) in Orlando is irrelevant to the story and you can remove that. Instead I would start each scene with Ext. Street - Morning. They way it is structured now is as one extended scene (which isn't actually the case from a story or shooting stadpoint).

In addition, I would rethink naming all of your characters. The guy who asks for change in the beginning, the lady behind Chad in line, the thief and the stand owner don't really need to be named. We learn nothing about them and noone calls them by name. A simple MAN, or WOMAN, or THIEF or OWNER would do just fine, and it reminds us of their role in the script. It can get confusing with so many names attached to small characters in a short time. Who is Brian again? Oh yea, the thief.

But overall its looking great! Some fine tuning and youll have a tight little script. Great job so far and good luck!
 
What would you suggest doing in terms of making the screenplay have a little more style to it? Are there any specific dos or don't that you see in my script that maybe I should stay away from?
 
Actually ... have a few passer-by give him change, mistaking him for a pan handler. He sees the absent-minded kindness, but kindness none-the-less. At first he's humiliated, but gets enough change to make a call to his office. he gets in, finds more kindness.

As he stare out the window, watching the throngs below, he has an epiphany. The next day he's a changed man.
 
Pan Handler

Pan Handler

I once saw a man ask 'have any spare change?' The man he asked pulled out a pocketfull of coins, counted it, then put it back in his pocket, said 'nope, none spare'.

Arrogance gone wild!

Maybe you need to show your chacter UNCHANGED by the robbery. A few people help him, but the very next day, he's right back to his old self. Great closing scenen would be the exchange above.

A
 
personally, I'm looking for more of an ambigious ending and I don't really see the purpose in expanding it much further. I'm really just looking to tighten something ups and get it ready to produce in the next couple of months.
 
Hey - sorry it took so long to give back a little more info. As far as style, I think your script is pretty good. It has a specific tone and you carry it throughout of the piece. I think the rest of it will have to be done while youre actually shooting.

Things to stay away from: excessive description. You need to be a little more selective about your descriptions. Tell us what we need to know, and let anything else be figured out by the actors/art department etc. on set.

"Chad enters line. Immediately the void spot behind him is filled. Chad picks up a newspaper from the rack...." Do we really need to know the spot behind him is immediately filled? If its a newsstand on the street its reasonable to figure other people are there. We also dont really need to know that Marie (the girl who is in front of him in line for only about 30 seconds) is wearing a sweater and jeans - it tells us nothing about her character (besides the fact that she dresses plain) and isnt important to the story. (I also still don't think you need to give all these one time characters names as it makes it confusing for a first read through, but thats a preference). Ditto for the wedding ring - Chad's a middle aged business man, its not out of line to assume hes married. If at the end of the script he asks someone to borrow their cell to call his wife, its not like the audience will rise up and say 'LIAR! We never saw a wedding band!', well believe him - you especially dont need to make it as flashy as 'shimmers under the harsh flourescents' - a simple mention that he wears a watch and a wedding band at the beginning of the script will do.

Some of this stuff is being nitpicky, and your actions definitely arent way too long, but there are sections that tell us info we dont really need to know, and the wordiness can make passages get confusing. This is most noticeable in the scene where Chad's wallet is stollen: You mention that Brian walks away. Then Chad snaps his head towards the street Brian just ran down. Then Brian starts to run. (and in the aftermath, Chad has time to call for help, look at his watch and say 'Ship, I'm gonna miss my meeting,' break into a run and still not lose Brian). Some of that may be errors while you were condensing, but definitely rework the action there.

Also on the subject of errors - you say that Chad is felled with a punch, but when he comes to you refer to his bruise being from a bat (again probably left over from the condensing)

Other small things I noticed:
-you misspell stares 'stairs' in the newsstand scene.
-you misspell Marie 'Maire' in the same scene
-in the alley scene you say the thugs emerge 'crowding a broad shadow over Chad' - Im assuming thats meant to be something else

But these are just small things - the storys there. Id just tighten up the action a little and fix the typos and you should be golden!
 
alex whitmer said:
Maybe you need to show your chacter UNCHANGED by the robbery
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting there be no character arc? Not much of a story without one. People will watch it and say "why did i sit through that? there was no concequence." It's the delicate struggle between depicting a change in lifestyle while not being too preachy.
 
McLeish said:
Are you suggesting there be no character arc? Not much of a story without one. People will watch it and say "why did i sit through that? there was no concequence." It's the delicate struggle between depicting a change in lifestyle while not being too preachy.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. In a feature-length film, yes. But in a 5-minute short, you better not have a character arc or you're trying to do waaay too much. We need time to get to know who the character is now before we see what he becomes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top