Record uncompressed 14-bit (4:4:4) on your HVX200

Mike;

We will have Andromeda live at NAB, together with footage from various users running on both HD and calibrated CRT's. We will also have more unreleased information/material :) about Hydra.

Also, for those of you who work with LUTs in any part of your workflow with any digital or film camera system, there will be some exciting news regarding xLUT.

Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
 
Hey Juan,

Why not also hack a firestore to record straight and bypass the whole computer issue? Write up some firmware and drop a fast harddrive into it. Oorrr call up Focus and talk to them about it. Maybe they will work with you guys.
 
Or, since apple's going to be releasing a sub-notebook soon: why not provide a turnkey mac (with an included and qualified external drive) all ready to go, with sculptor (etc.) preinstalled?
 
gamma

gamma

I really dig HVX's gamma setting. will real-stream come 99% or 100% close to panny's gamma settings?

Need that motion blur for film like visuals.

:)
 
arrestthisman said:
No Sync sound via gigabit in the same stream may be a dealbreaker for me.

First of all the camera is already amazing in terms of quality.

Second, the mod is likely going to be very expensive. I wouldn't doubt 4000$ or more. I think it sounds amazing and certianly worth the money, but for that tag, for a mod, no less, I think you should have sound in the stream. If it's less, then maybe not.

I think in-camera sound recording is one of the main advantages to the digital format in general. It's a shame to lose that no matter what the improvement is.

I've also heard horror stories about andromeda. Crashes, data loss, etc. The tether doesn't bother me at all, and previewing the video stream for focus is something I do anyway. But to have to setup the sound for each clip would get very old very fast. I seriously hope Juan doesn't repeat the same mistake.
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I would have to agree with the above. Real-Stream should definitely reconsider including sound in the stream. THis is one of the primary perks of shooting Digital.

I don't want to be bogged down with the multitude of clips worrying about syncing sound. Yes there are choices as Juan has stated, but the best choice is including sound with the stream.

Many of us are looking into bypassing the p2 card and to think about shooting on tape(my god no!) to sync sound is primitive to say the least.

So we still have to factor in more p2 cards for the sake of capturing our sound. umm. makes me think.

Juan, please gather your genious engineers and stream the sound in.

thanks for your hard work.
 
The sound issue doesn't bother me so much, I'm used to syncing sound at this point. I would like to see a firestore solution as mentioned above, that would make my life alot simpler.:thumbup:
 
Quoting Juan: "With Hydra on the HVX, remember that you need not record always at 14-bit, but assuming you do select 14-bit at 24P, expect somewhere 60-80MBytes/sec at maximum resolution."

I am not entertaining the thought of the Firestore.

Juan, I am curious what the approximate data rate would be if you include a 10bit log record LUT during capture? I am assessing storage requirements and options for a feature length production. I consider 14-bit might be reserved more so for greenscreen and scenes that involve intense compositing and post CC, though for output no higher than an HD master, a 10bit log record LUT would probably be enough for me, data wrangling included. :D
 
arrestthisman said:
Or, since apple's going to be releasing a sub-notebook soon: why not provide a turnkey mac (with an included and qualified external drive) all ready to go, with sculptor (etc.) preinstalled?
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Sub-Notebook?

I'm not sure what you mean by sub, but I personally need run and gun style for filming motocross. My firestore comment above would solve this but I don't think a turnkey laptop would.
 
Hi Gene. Are you actually referring to the Firestore or a similar HDD device for run/gun? Can Firestore sustain the 14bit data at 60-80MBytes/sec over FW400(?).

Perhaps something more like a RED RAM 64GB SATA Flash Memory is needed to capture RAW 14bit 4:4:4, then off-load to backup system and thereafter start post. Just thinking out loud. Interesting though, run/gun at this high end level would incredible (and expensive). :thumbsup:
 
Barry_Green said:
Motion blur will be identical. Gamma's a whole different story.
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Its been a while since I've looked into this... but you loose most of the settings on the camera due to the fact that its pulling it off the chips before it goes through the rest of the camera... is that correct... because you're getting a raw image...
 
Hello,

About the syncing issue, again, the specs that we are working towards do not require you to sync audio between the uncomrpessed footage and miniDV tape or P2 card.

The issues with sending audio are mainly that it greatly complicates installation labor(and increases cost to costumer), while not giving any quality advantage at all because the audio on the P2 card or miniDV tape is already the maximum quality the camera can produce. Depending on the demand, we can make it an installation option, there is certainly enough bandwidth to send it.

About a Firestore device, as some have already pointed out these devices are designed to record DV or DVCPROHD at 100Mbps max, not 1.25Gbps.

This doesn't mean that a more portable recorder option will not be available, one step at a time. (Well actually 3 or 4 at a time, but you know what I mean. :) )

The system takes the digital 14-bit signals directly from the front end, so all internal processing is bypassed. However, there's nothing special or magical about in-camera curves. If you really want to emulate a particular curve, simply drop a sample of the look you want into xLUT together with a RAW image from Hydra/Andromeda, and create a LUT for the look. The LUT can be used to apply the look in real-time in an uncompressed 14-bit(12-bit for Andro) RGB space.

Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
 
Bringing this up again because I'm slow: The internal processing thing is getting by me. So, the shutter, iris, etc are not bypassed and also go through the Ethernet connection but things like... what... Master Pedestal, V Detail, etc are bypassed? What's actually going to be retained from the camera settings and what's going to be lost?
 
Christopher Barry said:
Hi Gene. Are you actually referring to the Firestore or a similar HDD device for run/gun? Can Firestore sustain the 14bit data at 60-80MBytes/sec over FW400(?).

Perhaps something more like a RED RAM 64GB SATA Flash Memory is needed to capture RAW 14bit 4:4:4, then off-load to backup system and thereafter start post. Just thinking out loud. Interesting though, run/gun at this high end level would incredible (and expensive). :thumbsup:
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Well, I was talking about hacking the FS-100 also. Just use it as a base and build on top of it with new firmware so it will read the hydra stream.

About a Firestore device, as some have already pointed out these devices are designed to record DV or DVCPROHD at 100Mbps max, not 1.25Gbps.
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But the 100Mbps is the DVCPRO HD "spec" datarate. Not what the device can handle. Especially if you drop a faster harddrive into it.
 
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The easiest way to think about it, is that the system treats your HVX/DVX as a 'box' camera. Everything that is physical and affects the optical image, is of course transferred to the Uncompressed output because there are controls that affect what the CCD 'see'. Basically all the controls that you need to shoot affect the uncompressed footage. For example:

-focus/zoom
-ND Filters(or any other filters of course)
-Iris
-Shutter
-OIS
-Frame rates
-Gain
etc...

Remember that the camera continues to operate as normal, so any internal processing still affects the P2 or miniDV output as always, but the uncompressed data is RAW as seen by the sensors.

Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
 
DVCPRO HD is 100mb/s btw. So yes the current FS-100 should handle the data rate fine.
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This is a common source of confusion:
Mbps = Mega BITS per second
MB/sec=MByte/sec=Mega BYTES per second

y MB/sec = (1/8)(x Mbps)

so a 100Mbps DVCPROHD device is actually going at about 12.5MByte/sec, tops. AFAIK, there is also a LOT of overhead, for instance DVCPROHD always records 60P plus audio, so if you are recording 24P the bandwidth is actually more like 5Mbytes/sec at the maximum 1080 quality. Andromeda on the DVX,records 5-6 times as much information with Hydra it's about 12-14 times as much video information, this is just at 24P.

So any device designed to handle -only- 100Mbps will not be enough, not even for Andromeda on the DVX.

Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
 
Okay, thanks. Sorry that I had to have that spelled out for me. LoL. I expected that, but just wanted to make sure.
 
Eh sorry Juan. I edited my post above while you were typing. I blindly based that sentence off of what Christopher said was the target bitrate of the hydra stream. The mb/s was a typo.

So if the firestore has a 7200rpm drive and a computer that you are saying will capture the stream has a 7200rpm drive, besides firewire... what is the reason it's not fast enough?
 
The system supports a wide variety of data rates for different frame rates, color precisions and resolutions. Roughly speaking, the modes range from ~20MBytes/sec all the way to over 100Mbyte/sec. So, a 7200RPM laptop drive may be able to support some modes, a 7200RPM desktop drive will be able to support a few faster modes, a 2-drive RAID will support more modes, etc, etc.

It all depends on what you want to shoot, and then you just get a drive configuration that supports what you need.

Again, our system doesn't bend space and time, the user needs to have a drive that can support the bandwidth he/she is asking SculptorHD to record. :)

Cheers,
Juan
 
Ok I thought you mentioned that capture would be possible on a resonably spec'd machine. I keep hearing mini mac and laptop blah blah.

Thanks for the clarification. Btw, get back to work! ;) and check your email!

Ciao
 
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