Record uncompressed 14-bit (4:4:4) on your HVX200

Jack_Felis said:
Well guys, if people have been getting by with 4:4:4 Andromedized DVX cameras, what makes it so different for the HVX?

Both are 3CCD's, one just has more native resolution than the other, correct?

Based on what I've seen and read from an Andromedized DVX, it will deliver leaps and bounds over what you would normally get anyway.

Nik, nice comparison with the Viper! :thumbsup:
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Variable frame rates, baby! 60P!
 
Juan, what will the price be? I'm putting my money down now, tell me how to preorder, I'm #1 in line. I have seen the DVX with your mod and I have to say I am 100% confident that Hydra will blow me away, just tell me how much and where to send the cash-Adam
 
Oops! Christopher sorry I missed your question.

The record button on the HVX can be linked in SculptorHD to begin uncompressed recording together with P2 recording. The idea is that the footage on the P2 card can be used for audio, dailies, editing, etc. Andromeda users commonly do this with miniDV tape, the miniDV footage can be used for editing(although it has much lower latitude and quality overall), and then the audio can be kept for the uncompressed footage. We're building on our experience and suggestions from current Andromeda users with SculptorHD 2.0, the software generates its own timecode which by nature is locked to the HVX time code since both Hydra and P2 are timed by the frames coming off the CCD's.

Hope this answers your question...

Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
 
my question is space requirements. how much space will 2k uncompressed 24fps take up for 1 hour and can you record to an external hardrive hooked up to a mac mini.
 
Sigh. Does NAB have to be so far away? I'm wondering what kind of MAC PRO setup you guys have going on. Specs and all. HDD size? Raid 0 or 1? Installed DDR2 ram? Amount?

dooooh
 
Nik Manning said:
HYDRA


Is it me or does the VIPER not seem so superior anymore.
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What about lenses? Seems like the weak link on the HVX/Hydra will be the lens.
 
Could you record the Hydra-ized info to a hard disk AND at the same time the audio and a low resolution DV "proxie" to a P2 card? Then edit from the smaller P2 files. Once the editing is done, redig using the larger "2k" files?
 
pertierr said:
The record button on the HVX can be linked in SculptorHD to begin uncompressed recording together with P2 recording. The idea is that the footage on the P2 card can be used for audio, dailies, editing, etc. Andromeda users commonly do this with miniDV tape, the miniDV footage can be used for editing(although it has much lower latitude and quality overall), and then the audio can be kept for the uncompressed footage. We're building on our experience and suggestions from current Andromeda users with SculptorHD 2.0, the software generates its own timecode which by nature is locked to the HVX time code since both Hydra and P2 are timed by the frames coming off the CCD's.
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Thanks for the feedback Juan. Originally, I thought there would be a lot more data to wrangle if having to record to P2, however, I can now see the benefits and I have a few more questions:
a. The dailies from P2 (and off-line), a lot less rendering, etc, to down convert the Hydra files;
b. For efficient 24p P2 recording, perhaps 720pN24 may be P2 data efficient, as I do not think the HVX mode of 720 or 1080 will effect how Hydra acquires the 2K files, just need to be in an HD mode to record the uncompressed audio;
c. If SculptorHD 2.0 records the same timecode as the HVX P2 card, say, once you off-line the P2 data, is there a method to automate a conform of the Hydra source file (post xLUT) to replace the video component of the P2 files in the relevant NLE, or alternatively, would you use a Multi-Cam editing feature in your relevant NLE to sync the Hydra files to the P2 files on a separate video track (perhaps above the P2 video track), then you could toggle between on-line and off-line in the one sequence? (NLE sequence preference may require changing from 720p to 1080p/2K to view this).
For short form work, the whole hydra process seems fine, as for long form, like a feature length movie, depending on how easy it is to complete item (c) above, seems like one of the most important post work workflow process to make efficient. I have never used Andromeda DVX/SculptorHD, so perhaps some of my workflow interpretations are flawed to begin with. The concerns I had the other day, now seem a lot less, and answers that may follow will assist me, to desist from thinking too much. (Hydra) I must have it.... :D
 
harddrive said:
[H]aving just looked at the Silicon Imaging website I note that whilst they may claim 2k resolution . . . they do not claim 4:4:4. Although their chip may approach 2k luminance resolution, it (like what is being talked about here) cannot claim that for each colour, and hence cannot be accurately described as 4:4:4 - and to the best of my knowledge, they don't attempt to.
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As I understand it, the same could be said for RED, which has a single Mysterium chip. Sophisticated demosaicing algorithms make single-chip cameras possible.
 
Overlook said:
Could you record the Hydra-ized info to a hard disk AND at the same time the audio and a low resolution DV "proxie" to a P2 card? Then edit from the smaller P2 files. Once the editing is done, redig using the larger "2k" files?
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I'm not Juan, but if I understand the system well enough I'd say the answer to this is Yes. And No.

Yes, in that you could configure the system to record in DV to the P2, but Hydra wouldn't care because it's reading directly from the CCDs, bypassing all that. So that would work.

But No, if you want to use variable frame rates or any frame rate other than 24/30/60. Because you have to use the HVX's menus to set what mode the camera operates in; the Hydra wouldn't control that, it only records what the camera's set to. So for 30p, yes you could set the HVX to DV 480i/30p and get 25mbps recording to the cards, and the Hydra would still pull 2k@30p out. But if you wanted 52fps, you'd have to set the camera to 720p mode in order to have access to the 52fps frame rate, which means your P2 recording couldn't be 25mbps, it'd be more like 84mbps or something.
 
That's a good point Barry, 480/24p DV mode and Hydra still records 2K. Good off-line option. I forgot, does recording to DV provide uncompressed audio? I guess you would be giving up 2 of the 4 channels of audio that can be recorded to P2, even though the HVX's onboard mic is often not the most usable audio, though has it's use and place.
 
HVX is always uncompressed audio at all times.

Also, DV mode can record all four channels to the P2 card (in 16-bit 48KHz). On tape it can't, but to the card it can.
 
Oh yeah, you can record SD to P2 in DVCPro50, with all 4 audio channels. Recording DV to P2 in DVCPro50 would be the smart way to record, as I see it. Hydra, not being linked to the camera mode of the HVX (not resolution, just frame rate is relevant), has been my misconception, which I now understand, thanks Barry.

If you edited the DV P2 based off-line files and can then easily sync/conform the Hydra TC encoded 2K files to the off-line sequence, this work flow is probably one of the most cost effective and efficient available, especially if for something like a feature length movie. This could be, or is, unbelievable. :thumbsup:
 
Hello,

Barry covered most of the questions(thanks Barry!), Hydra only reads what's coming off the chips so whatever frame rate the camera is set on is what the system gets. We're still doing all sorts of engineering on this thing, so once we have exact specs on all modes we will post them in a table.

As Barry pointed out the camera is unaffected by the system so you can record audio to DV tape or P2 card while recording uncompressed. This is common practice with Andromeda.

Another thing I should point out, is that SculptorHD 2.0 will include the ability to view/play the raw files themselves. Our goal is to eventually be able to encode to a dailies format in real-time so no rendering is required for editing, but processing power may be an issue. With the current version of SculptorHD, one can render in full quality or render Dailies which are lower quality but render faster than realtime on modern Intel machines.

Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
 
Can anyone else confirm that it is roughly 300gb of space for 1 hour of footage?
If so my calculations come to this

HYDRA Basic
90 minute film with 10:1 shot ratio
15hr x 300gb = 4.5TB space
10 500gb (465gb after formatted) drives = 4.65TB
10 500gb drives x $150 = $1,500
5bay swappable Raid sytem $500

That is just Raid 0. You might need something a little more robust if you have all that data you don't want to get lost. With that said if you are using these for capture only and will only access them maybe 4 times during your whole shoot it shouldn't really be a problem. It is not a long term storage solution thou. Also you have a dvcprohd backup. You won't need any complex raid setup just maybe something that swaps maybe 5 Hardrives.

You won't need any complex editing system I assume just basically a Mac Pro with 3 750GB (698GB formatted) raid 0 would give you 7 hours or so of uncompressed on your editing system. Can't see anyone needing more than that when you should be editing in 720p24.

DVCPROHD Basic
90 minute film with 10:1 shot ratio
15hr x 22gb = 330gb space (thats higher than 720p24 datarate but I am sure there will be some slow mo in there somewhere) :)
1 500gb drives x $150 = $150
That is just Raid 0. You might need something a little more robust if you have all that data you don't want to get lost. This would be the cheapest to backup raid 1 just buy another hardrive.

This workflow could easily be used on any production with a decent budget.
I predict this will be the DP camera of the year! Shoot uncompressed no transcoding just give the 720p version to the editor and begin the edit asap on location on a laptop. :dankk2::crybaby:
 
Still no confirmation on specs. But okay then--

How soon can we expect Hydra to be released to the public?
 
Nik...

not saying my calculation is 100% accurate, just basing it off of a 45 minute export i did for BDMV. File was around 260gb. One .mov file, had to ship off on an external HDD. ANyone else have any sort of calculation? Mine usually floats around 4 to 5gb per minute
 
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