Record uncompressed 14-bit (4:4:4) on your HVX200
- Thread starter pertierr
- Start date
Christopher Barry
Veteran
I agree sick boy, it's a good feature to have, no doubt. Even so, if you had to manually conform the P2 audio with the Hydra frames, it could be a frustrating post exercise, imo. Recording both A/V to hard drive, and having the option to record to P2 would be ideal.sick boy said:
CarlSpackler
Member
Tight!
jake stutheit
Active member
this is pretty exciting news. can FCP edit 14 bit 4:4:4?
235 Studios
Veteran
Kholi said:
No kidding- it'll take a HUGE amount of processing power to handle all that!
BTW- my fast forward button doesn't seem to be working- it is still March 27th ....
AbstracTheory
Well-known member
235 Studios said:
Like an 8 Core Mac? NAB Can't come soon enough.. We all know that..
AbstracTheory said:
Keep in mind that Juan said that they are doing tests on Mac Pro and Macbook Pro, so it probably won't have to be an 8 Core Intel. Don't quote me. However, realize that the Mac Pro's have Core 2 Duo's at the very least.
They are fast chips, and when paired with a heap of ram + at least a 7200mb 16mb cache Hard Drive, could do decent.
No Mac for me, though. So we'll have to see some Vista 32 or 64 bit support so that we Core 2 PC guys can take advantage of maxing out Ram. I'd love to pump my internal ram to the max supported 8gb.
Course now I'm thinking I should be adhering a QX6700 Core 2 Quad to me motherboard.
AbstracTheory
Well-known member
Sorry, I should clarify, I didn't mean to sound like an 8 core mac was the minimum to process footage that we're talking about.. I was mentioning the 8 core mac in reference to NAB and the upcoming apple announcement... FCP 6
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Christopher Barry
Veteran
What interests and intrigues me is the prospect of being able to take that very high quality 4:4:4 Hydra source file, then encode to something like 1080p24 CineForm Prospect HD 10bit codec, which is an efficient and data rate friendly codec, whereas encoding to Prospect HD from the DVCProHD codec off camera/P2 has been compressed substantially already, comparatively. This really could be a cost effective method to move to a whole new level. :thumbsup:
A quick comment about working with uncompressed footage, you do not -have- to edit at full quality uncompressed. In fact, it is common practice not to do so. Take motion picture films shot on 35mm. Usually, only the sections that require digital color work or composition are scanned in at 2K or 4K. For editing, a compressed SD or HD telecine works just fine.
The same approach can be taken with uncompressed footage from any system including Hydra and Andromeda. We have users that edit on laptops or mac minis, they simply work with offline dailies. Once rendered to RGB, even at 8-bit Andromeda 1.5K 24P footage from the DVX is 110MBytes/sec. While editing, the difference between using uncompressed RGB(4:4:4) and compressed footage will probably be irrelevant. The uncompressed quality is key(pun intended?) when doing composition or digital color work however.
What is cool about this approach is that you can choose whatever workflow you desire and works best for your application. Some people edit uncompressed, others go offline.
Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
The same approach can be taken with uncompressed footage from any system including Hydra and Andromeda. We have users that edit on laptops or mac minis, they simply work with offline dailies. Once rendered to RGB, even at 8-bit Andromeda 1.5K 24P footage from the DVX is 110MBytes/sec. While editing, the difference between using uncompressed RGB(4:4:4) and compressed footage will probably be irrelevant. The uncompressed quality is key(pun intended?) when doing composition or digital color work however.
What is cool about this approach is that you can choose whatever workflow you desire and works best for your application. Some people edit uncompressed, others go offline.
Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
Barry_Green
Moderator
Does the Hydra modification involve painting any segments of the HVX red?
Heh.
Heh.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
Barry_Green said:
Heh heh.
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I gotta admit, this is looking very interesting. For some reason, I was always thinking that the price of Andromeda was much higher than it is. That gives me a bit of an idea of what 'Hydra' might cost, and it makes it very exciting.
One thing that would be cool though, would be the ability to kind of 'choose' an output setting. Like, do I want the full 2k at 14 bit, or do I want 1080p at 12 bit, etc. Dont' fully grasp the 'technicals' behind Andromeda and Hydra, so I could be talking outta' me arse. Just thinking it might be nice to have something that could be 'mounted' nearby (like on the camera rig, somewhere) to record onto. That something would have to be somewhat small, and that small something would have to have enough horsepower to handle the data. Which is why it also might be nice to have a few options of output quality.
Something like this, for example:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=478880&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
Sony (sigh)
Maybe a next generation of that compy, anyways
Anyways,
Jason
Christopher Barry
Veteran
pertierr, that is why I like the CineForm Prospect HD for non-film out and HD mastering with limited budget. I do not know if TC is transferred with Hydra, or a manual conform (line up by eye?) would be required to go from off-line edit to on-line edit/finishing. The CineForm wavelet codec is 10bit capable and 1080p24 footage would be approximately less than 20MBytes/sec, so it is approximately the data rate of 8bit uncompressed SD, which I think today is manageable to immediately on-line and storage on single SATA or SATA raid should suffice and be cost effective. I am yet to implement my AJA Xena card, which would then provide for HD-SDI monitoring and I/O under PP2. Now NAB this year and what FCP offers, CineForm in beta of their codec for Mac, should make for interesting developments. I think part of the key 
is if Hydra passes timecode (some form of NLE compatable meta data?) to the hard drive, you could then contemporaneously record to P2 on the HVX and do your off-line in DVCProHD, then somehow conform the TC based Hydra source files during finishing/mastering. Just thinking out loud, very interesting to see how it all unfolds. Happy to hear of some other theories on how to possibly workflow Hydra, indie budget style?
Edit: oops, just remembered, you're Mr Reel-Stream.
is if Hydra passes timecode (some form of NLE compatable meta data?) to the hard drive, you could then contemporaneously record to P2 on the HVX and do your off-line in DVCProHD, then somehow conform the TC based Hydra source files during finishing/mastering. Just thinking out loud, very interesting to see how it all unfolds. Happy to hear of some other theories on how to possibly workflow Hydra, indie budget style?Edit: oops, just remembered, you're Mr Reel-Stream.
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TedRR
Well-known member
Wouldn't the fact that the HVX does pixel shifting reduce the potential for recording straight off the CCD block? But I could easily misunderstand the concept.
I hope it's available for the PC as well. Although I understand ya gotta do what ya gotta do first.
Best of luck with this great sounding product.
I hope it's available for the PC as well. Although I understand ya gotta do what ya gotta do first.
Best of luck with this great sounding product.
Hello,
As far as having a small computer for Andromeda, an Intel Mac Mini works fine, or one can use the cheapest MacBook available ($999 i believe).
The recording modes on Hydra are configurable, similar to Andromeda but even more flexible. You can record 14-bit, or record 12, 10 or 8-bit. In the latter cases, the 14-bit data is converted to the selected color depth in real-time using RGB curves(LUTs) that the user can draw from scratch using xLUT, or can select from a pre-generated library of curves/looks as is currently available for SculptorHD.
I'm glad pixel-shift was brought up because it seems like this is an area of some confusion. Imaging sensors are monochrome("grayscale") by nature, so if one looks at just about any single-sensor digital cinematography camera such as, say the Arri D-20, each pixel in the sensor only records one basic color, either Red Green or Blue.
Pixel shift, in simple terms, combines 3 sensors each recording one color(red, green and blue) into an imaging block that functions similar to how a single color sensor of higher resolution works.
In other words, when talking about a pixel-shift 3CCD assembly, the native resolution is the resolution of the entire imager block, not just one sensor. In the case of the DVX this is 1540x984.
Each approach has its own advantages and disadvantages. One important advantage of pixel shift is that because the pixels are spread over 3 sensors, each pixel element can have larger surface area than if all the pixels where crammed into a single sensor. This tends to yield better noise characteristics, sensitivity and latitude.
Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
As far as having a small computer for Andromeda, an Intel Mac Mini works fine, or one can use the cheapest MacBook available ($999 i believe).
The recording modes on Hydra are configurable, similar to Andromeda but even more flexible. You can record 14-bit, or record 12, 10 or 8-bit. In the latter cases, the 14-bit data is converted to the selected color depth in real-time using RGB curves(LUTs) that the user can draw from scratch using xLUT, or can select from a pre-generated library of curves/looks as is currently available for SculptorHD.
I'm glad pixel-shift was brought up because it seems like this is an area of some confusion. Imaging sensors are monochrome("grayscale") by nature, so if one looks at just about any single-sensor digital cinematography camera such as, say the Arri D-20, each pixel in the sensor only records one basic color, either Red Green or Blue.
Pixel shift, in simple terms, combines 3 sensors each recording one color(red, green and blue) into an imaging block that functions similar to how a single color sensor of higher resolution works.
In other words, when talking about a pixel-shift 3CCD assembly, the native resolution is the resolution of the entire imager block, not just one sensor. In the case of the DVX this is 1540x984.
Each approach has its own advantages and disadvantages. One important advantage of pixel shift is that because the pixels are spread over 3 sensors, each pixel element can have larger surface area than if all the pixels where crammed into a single sensor. This tends to yield better noise characteristics, sensitivity and latitude.
Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com